The Oklahoma City Tornado

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KCMax
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The Oklahoma City Tornado

Post by KCMax »

What would you do if there was announcement on a typical spring morning that a bomb would go off that afternoon? That’s what happened today in Oklahoma City. This morning, all of the normally frantic TV weather people were full of stern and serious warnings. Today – like yesterday – had all of the signs of being a terrible and destructive weather day. All we could do was wait.

At about 3 p.m., huge, ugly tornadoes rolled in, just as kids were being dismissed from school and parents were gambling with the idea of head to them or hunker down. Fortunately, just a few miles north or south made the difference between sunshine and wrath. I made it to my kids, picking them up while my wife, a teacher, sat in a basement with her students on the other side of town.

Now here I sit in the living room, watching a swath of death and debris on a loop from Moore, Oklahoma. The movie theatre we go to. Smashed homes in a path like a giant’s footprints. Two schools in rubble.
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/05/ ... -oklahoma/

So many awe-inspiring and tragic videos being posted. Death count is at 21, but that number seems to keep changing.

Insane footage of the twister
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTpceWd8UE4
http://youtu.be/XMF22_MEMJU

Owner finds her dog in the rubble in the middle of an interview. I guarantee you will lose it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUc1ZgXiQGs

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Re: The Oklahoma City Tornado

Post by AllThingsKC »

The 2-year anniversary of the Joplin tornado is tomorrow.
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Re: The Oklahoma City Tornado

Post by Zorobabel »

To be honest, I don't understand why schools in a generally well-off suburb like Moore did not bother to build storm shelters, especially after the devastation of the '99 tornado.

The elementary school I attended in rural Oklahoma had no storm shelter. During drills, we basically had to cram ourselves into the basement of a neighboring home. In light of the kind of shelter provided by the Moore school district (none), I suppose my fellow classmates and I were quite fortunate.

The OK state government is seeing its revenues rise nearly 15% y-o-y, so perhaps they could take a bit of that surging revenue and, instead of cutting education funding, actually use it for something useful such as protecting the lives of school children.
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Re: The Oklahoma City Tornado

Post by KCMax »

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/05/ ... -worth-it/
In Webb City, next door to Joplin, the Federal Emergency Management Agency gave $3 million last year to build a safe room at the local high school. It can shelter 3,000 people, if they can get there before a twister strikes. (And that’s a big if, given the short time between a tornado warning and the moment when the doors need to close; just picture how tough it is to get 250 people into a jumbo jet in 40 minutes.) The shelter cost $1,000 per person it can protect from a tornado; building shelters for everyone in Missouri at this rate would cost $6 billion. Based on Missouri’s average of two deaths per year from tornadoes, this measure would save 100 lives over 50 years at a cost of $60 million per life. Even if the shelters last 200 years, the cost would be $15 million for each life saved.
I think its a bit disingenuous to say that every school should build a shelter. But I do question whether the risk justifies the cost. Instead, he proposes building stronger multi-purpose rooms:
A planned addition to Andalusia Middle School in the southern part of Alabama includes an interior multipurpose room designed to withstand deadly storm winds. Its walls are made of thick concrete with rebar reinforcing rods. And the hallways are built with the doglegs that Roberts favors. The new school also has windows, which are good for education and a sense of well-being. If a tornado approaches, heavy steel shutters inside the building lock in place, letting the winds throw the glass outward, but leaving those inside safe.
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Re: The Oklahoma City Tornado

Post by Zorobabel »

I wouldn't suggest it for Missouri. I would, however, suggest it for Oklahoma. The point that
building shelters for everyone in Missouri at this rate would cost $6 billion
...is totally irrelevant, as neither I nor anyone else would suggest that the government build shelters for everyone in Missouri. Talking about school children here. For schools with more than 500 students, large safe room / strengthened common areas would suffice. For elementary schools, tornado-proof storm shelters or underground shelters should be required.

Building 'strong' schools is also a nice idea in theory, but, of course, “You cannot build a structure that’s going to take a direct hit from a tornado like that [which hit Moore] that’s going to stand" (source). The argument that F5 tornadoes are so rare that we shouldn't plan for them is also convenient, that is until one hits a populated area and kills large amounts of people.
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Re: The Oklahoma City Tornado

Post by pash »

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Last edited by pash on Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Oklahoma City Tornado

Post by chaglang »

pash wrote:Sure, but KCMax's point stands. Statistics suggest you're going to spend tens of millions of dollars per life saved. So that approach makes little sense, because even if you're willing to pay that price, the same investment elsewhere would save many more lives.
True. But once you've spent the money on shelters, it's not going anywhere. If you spend the money on better storm tracking in the NOAA budget, that money tends to get cut at some point.
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Re: The Oklahoma City Tornado

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chaglang wrote:
pash wrote:Sure, but KCMax's point stands. Statistics suggest you're going to spend tens of millions of dollars per life saved. So that approach makes little sense, because even if you're willing to pay that price, the same investment elsewhere would save many more lives.
True. But once you've spent the money on shelters, it's not going anywhere. If you spend the money on better storm tracking in the NOAA budget, that money tends to get cut at some point.
The decision of choice in Oklahoma is evolving towards fleeing by car in the face of large tornados. This is probably an order of magnitude more dangerous than staying in one's homes and is likely to lead to more deaths the first time even an F1 rumbles into a traffic jam created by panic (a tornado totally survivable in a house). Building a small shelter on one's premises is not that expensive. Building them in public buildings like schools should be a requirement; you'd save lives and injuries for a lot less than tens of millions per case. It's absolutely a surmountable problem that can be done without an enormous amount of spending.
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Re: The Oklahoma City Tornado

Post by chaglang »

IIRC there was a woman and baby were sucked out of a car that they were fleeing in. The news account mentioned people being caught in traffic jams trying to escape the storm and having to hide in gas station coolers.

It's probably a matter of time before someone uses this to call for more highways.
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Re: The Oklahoma City Tornado

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

Building them in public buildings like schools should be a requirement
After the previous tornado in Moore that is a requirement. The two schools hit by the last one were built before the previous tornado (at least that is what I heard). The problem is access after school hours when the building is locked. Who unlocks the building? Plus you have a limited amount of time. What do you do if many people are killed going to the shelter? They had 16 minutes of warning before the tornado hit. Joplin had less. According to Time mag the average warning time for a tornado is 14 minutes.
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Re: The Oklahoma City Tornado

Post by Highlander »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:
Building them in public buildings like schools should be a requirement
After the previous tornado in Moore that is a requirement. The two schools hit by the last one were built before the previous tornado (at least that is what I heard). The problem is access after school hours when the building is locked. Who unlocks the building? Plus you have a limited amount of time. What do you do if many people are killed going to the shelter? They had 16 minutes of warning before the tornado hit. Joplin had less. According to Time mag the average warning time for a tornado is 14 minutes.
I am not suggesting people get out of their homes and head to schools. Frankly, with most tornados being survivable F3 and less in severity, staying put is almost always the best course of action. Having shelters at schools are for the occupants of the school. If I lived in OKC, I'd simply put a shelter in the backyard. While it obviously cost money, it's only a few thousand and it probably pays off when you sell the house. OKC has historically been in the heart of the most active portion of tornado alley. The plethora of tornados there isn't anything new, but the city is growing rapidly and sprawl increases the chances of being hit.
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