Boston Marathon bombing

[AllThingsKC]

Right now, the streets of Boston are full of people celebrating and chanting "USA!". It looks just like when Osama bin Laden was captured.

[chaglang]

Siri, is there a boat nearby?

[Highlander]

Never underestimate the capacity of politics to use such events to hammer their opposition:

http://www.reagancoalition.com/articles ... orted.html

[Highlander]

Right now, the streets of Boston are full of people celebrating and chanting "USA!". It looks just like when Osama bin Laden was captured.

I wish people wouldn't do this. If I just had my legs blown off as a result of such senseless stupidity, that's the last thing I'd want....its not a happy occasion. I'd certainly be relieved the idiots were caught/dead, and certainly proud of the fact that nobody's going to do this and get away with it, but who really feels like celebrating? It's a bit macabre when you think about it for what really should a somber ending to that part of the ordeal - after all, the victims are facing a lifetime without limbs or worse from an event that happened just last week. I know the celebrators mean well but I do not think it's the right response.

[earthling]

^I agree but it's not surprising a hefty % of population would express Nationalism. It comes across to me as somewhere between gloating and American superiority, neither of which is an appropriate response. OTOH, there will always be plenty of people who disagree with plenty others with how they react to the entire situation. I was kinda hoping it would be a purely domestic perpetrator just so that we could avoid anything from xenophobia to another foreign conflict. There is no doubt this will rile up some of the xenophobes/provincials to mainstream flag waving nationalists who mean well but not really thinking about their expression.

There's such a fine line between pride and gloating that you're better off just not going there. There are better ways to express relief of the outcome than waving flags and chanting USA, especially when broadcasted to rest of world.

Get ready for potentially more unnecessary pandering to fear, like tighter 'security' and perhaps broader unjustifiable use of body scanners (guilty until proven innocent machines). The sad thing is that if it comes to this, the Feds would be pandering to the very same people - xenophobes, provincials and flag waving nationalists who chant USA. I lean towards the school of thought that we let the terrorists win when we alter our freedoms in reaction to the fear they want us to have. There are some reasonable changes to allow for but body scanners definitely not justifiable.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Get ready for potentially more unnecessary pandering to fear, like tighter 'security' and perhaps broader unjustifiable use of body scanners (guilty until proven innocent machines)

There have been calls already for more cameras.

[AllThingsKC]

I wish people wouldn't do this. If I just had my legs blown off as a result of such senseless stupidity, that's the last thing I'd want....its not a happy occasion. I'd certainly be relieved the idiots were caught/dead, and certainly proud of the fact that nobody's going to do this and get away with it, but who really feels like celebrating? It's a bit macabre when you think about it for what really should a somber ending to that part of the ordeal - after all, the victims are facing a lifetime without limbs or worse from an event that happened just last week. I know the celebrators mean well but I do not think it's the right response.

^I agree but it's not surprising a hefty % of population would express Nationalism. It comes across to me as somewhere between gloating and American superiority, neither of which is an appropriate response.

I see your side of this, and normally, I would agree. But, I looked at the celebrations as being completely different from how you both viewed them. I think this case is a little different. To me, the people were celebrating:

1. JUSTICE. When something bad happens, Americans crave for justice. (This is also why I think so many people "celebrated" the death of Osama bin Laden, but that's a different story).

2. FREEDOM. In this particular case, Boston had been in lock down all day long, and no doubt the mood in Boston had been somber all week. So, I am sure a fair portion of the celebratory mood was due to the lock down being finally being lifted.

3. NATIONALISM. As earthling has already pointed out, I am sure national played a role in the celebrations, but I don't think it was too the extent he (she?) thinks it is. I didn't view it as gloating or a feeling of superiority (though, that was probably the case with the celebrations over bin Laden's death). In Boston's case, I think it was more pride in their local government and a feeling of "If you do this, we will come after you." I didn't sense gloating (i.e., "We're better than you because we get bad guys".)

However, as Highlander said, the celebrations like that might have been an odd response since people will deal with their losses for the rest of their lives. But, I think people in Boston had other reasons for celebrating last night, if that makes sense.

[earthling]

^I also said, 'there's such a fine line between pride and gloating that you're better off just not going there'. However it would be more surprising if no one demonstrated nationalism with flag waving and USA chants even if this were pointed to them. I understand it happens and always will with things like this, but do think it's inappropriate.

On cameras, there is a subjective 'proper and improper' use for them. Few will unanimously agree on when/where to/not to use them. But in many cases (public places) they are not as personally invasive as body scanners and it's disturbing we actually do the latter and that many are actually complacent about use of body scanners. We need to challenge use of body scanners first or otherwise the Feds will come up with other personally invasive methods. Google Glasses will become more of a privacy concern than use of cameras in public places.

[AllThingsKC]

^I also said, 'there's such a fine line between pride and gloating that you're better off just not going there'. However it would be more surprising if no one demonstrated nationalism with flag waving and USA chants even if this were pointed to them. I understand it happens and always will with things like this, but do think it's inappropriate.

Exactly, but I viewed the celebrations as neither pride nor gloating (in this case). Of course, how people around the world saw it is another story.

[chaglang]

The USA chants baffled me because this never seemed to have anything to do with anywhere but Boston. Unless you take the view that any terrorist attack in the US is an attack on the US, but my god there have been thousands of terrorist attacks in the US since 1970. In different forms, this has been going on forever and will likely go on forever. Chant all you want when we win. We didn't win anything Friday night. But I don't expect a bunch of drunk Emerson students to grasp that.

At least they weren't chanting "Yankees suck!"

[aknowledgeableperson]

To me, the people were celebrating:

1. JUSTICE. When something bad happens, Americans crave for justice. (This is also why I think so many people "celebrated" the death of Osama bin Laden, but that's a different story).

2. FREEDOM. In this particular case, Boston had been in lock down all day long, and no doubt the mood in Boston had been somber all week. So, I am sure a fair portion of the celebratory mood was due to the lock down being finally being lifted.

I would tend to agree with these two items and would add:

Don't forget the initial event happened on a day the locals use to celebrate and that celebration was taken from them. And for the next few days I would imagine that many were anxious, on edge, that another event would happen. And I would say that the celebration was a way to show appreciation for all of the efforts and sacrifices the law enforcement officers had experienced over the previous days.

[heatherkay]

At least they weren't chanting "Yankees suck!"

We don't know that for sure.

[earthling]

You've contradicted yourself...

I think it was more pride in their local government and a feeling of "If you do this, we will come after you."

I viewed the celebrations as neither pride nor gloating (in this case). Of course, how people around the world saw it is another story.

And those who don't think about how rest of world view flag waving and USA chanting are kinda behaving provincially. The US is still considered a superpower in general, not wise to express anything that may appear as gloating or national superiority, which flag waving and chanting comes across as even if not intended to. May as well not go there as there are other ways to express gratitude. But there are a good chunk of nationalists out there who view it as patriotic display and will do it anyway, so it goes.

[AllThingsKC]

I'm not denying that nationalism played a role in Boston's celebrations. I just don't think it was a major role or it wasn't the main reason.

What people want is justice. After a long week and an all day lock down, Boston felt like they got justice and their freedom to finally leave their homes. If I was them, I would probably be celebating too. Too many other things to celebrate outside of nationalism. But, yes, I am sure nationalism was part of it.

[Highlander]

I'm not denying that nationalism played a role in Boston's celebrations. I just don't think it was a major role or it wasn't the main reason.

What people want is justice. After a long week and an all day lock down, Boston felt like they got justice and their freedom to finally leave their homes. If I was them, I would probably be celebating too. Too many other things to celebrate outside of nationalism. But, yes, I am sure nationalism was part of it.

I can understand the relief part of it but not the nationalism. We shut down an entire city, a very large city, to find a scared 19 year old all the while treating the kid like he was some kind of superhero movie villain. I think it was a bit of overkill. Instead of not being "terrorized" as Obama had exclaimed we acted exactly like we were very much indeed terrorized.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Instead of not being "terrorized" as Obama had exclaimed we acted exactly like we were very much indeed terrorized.

Yes, in a respect, terrorism did succeed for a time with a city shut down but I believe it was the right call to make in this situation. Just think of the number of calls the police would have received Friday from citizens thinking they have seen the suspect. Yes, they believed they had an approximate location of his whereabouts but he was found one block outside of the house-to-house search so he really could have been anywhere, especially if he had some one to help him.

not wise to express anything that may appear as gloating or national superiority

Guess you have never been to an international soccer match. Talk about flag waving and chanting. Sporting event or otherwise I think most of the world would put it into proper context and see it as pride in one's country.

[KCMax]

Never underestimate the capacity of politics to use such events to hammer their opposition:

http://www.reagancoalition.com/articles ... orted.html

Yea, I've seen some really stupid articles and tweets this week. This incident proves we need more gun control, it means we need less gun control, it means we need immigration reform, it means we need to deport all immigrants, the NRA allowed this to happen, OBAMA allowed this to happen. This is a pretty rare event, its seems odd that anyone would use it as an example to base our public policy on (and I feel the same way about Newtown).

[mean]

This is a pretty rare event, its seems odd that anyone would use it as an example to base our public policy on (and I feel the same way about Newtown).

Agreed, and I feel the same way about 9/11, but hello DHS, TSA, body scanners, confiscated forks and shampoos, aggressively patting down particularly sensitive bits of people, sometimes including toddlers and old ladies...

Forgive me for feeling like inventing massive new federal bureaucracies and implementing draconian "security" screenings doesn't mean that we are winning (or even fighting) the "war on terror"; rather, it means that we have, in fact, successfully been terrorized.

[chaglang]

I'll go you one further and debate whether terrorist activity in the US is even a rare event. There are high profile attacks that grab lots of press coverage and reshape public policy, but there are dozens of others every year that are technically terrorist activity but are never characterized as such.

US terror attacks 1970-2011 mapped

The map is interesting, but the actual database is fascinating. For example, does anyone know about the string of bombings in KC in the spring of 1970? Linwood UMC, East High School, the KCPD Police Academy, Plaza III Steakhouse, the Waltower Building (now lofts), and the Argyle Building were all hit. This was news to me.

[KCMax]

So, are mass shootings considered terrorist events? Why or why not? You can arguably kill a lot more people. I mean think if these two guys had automatic weapons on them and started picking people off. How many could they have killed? The issues is they certainly don't get away with it, and it looks like they thought they could get away with it.

Its just interesting in the wake of the discussion whether or not to call Tsarnev an "enemy combatant" or not because this is terrorism, but there was no discussion for Adam Lanza (well probably because he died), or James Holmes, or Jared Loughner. Is it because they were just perceived as crazy with no political agenda? If Tsarnev bombed people with no political agenda, just because he was crazy, is he still an enemy combatant? Does the intent matter at all if the results are the same?