Gay marriage

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grovester
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Re: Gay marriage

Postby grovester » Wed May 20, 2015 8:33 pm

I guess the problem with that is otherwise it's defined by religion or mob rule. My gig is that it's not what happens in church , it's what happens at the courthouse that counts. Church is just a ceremony.

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Thu May 21, 2015 12:08 am

" marriage is a personal contract that shouldn't be recognized by govt to begin with,"

Marriage needs to be recognized by government simply because of the legal ramifications or complications it creates. Distributions of assets when there is no will. Follow parent's wishes or the partner's wishes with regards to the handling of the body after death. Medical care one receives when one cannot make those decisions. Those issues and many more were the reasons for the push to at least recognize civil unions, which could also apply to common law marriages between a man and a woman.

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WSPanic
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Re: Gay marriage

Postby WSPanic » Thu May 21, 2015 7:41 am

Did Jesus type the all caps part, or was that emphasis added by you?

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grovester
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Re: Gay marriage

Postby grovester » Thu May 21, 2015 8:52 am

I read that in a Charlton Heston voice.

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby flyingember » Thu May 21, 2015 10:21 am

I like how he takes a passage that's generic on sins and makes it be about marriage

you have a focus on certain lusts, sure, but this is all about things for a general population not to do. it's a letter to all the unrighteous Romans. ALL of them from the age of baptism through to death. There's plenty of not yet married or widowed people in the population at the time (many more are widowed with disease rampant). We know the unrighteous are not just those married because it talks about children obeying their parents. So we know the letter includes individuals not deemed old enough to live on their own as adults. And once you're married I presume one lived on their own in ancient times.

Does anyone really think in that vein this letter says that only married people shouldn't gossip? This tells us it's saying that no one should have certain sex acts. No one. it doesn't care if the people are married, it's saying that's not right in general. If you're not married, no specific sex acts for you! A widowed adult should not do those acts and instead should follow the bible.

It's explicitly ignoring commenting on marriage because it wants to make a bigger statement to everyone among the Romans.

And if you can't quote Romans for marriage you have very few choices that Jesus didn't kill needing to follow with the two great commandments statements. The not required to follow old testament covers most of what the bible says about marriage.

And the new testament largely comes back to physical acts with discussions of "one flesh" and what does that mean?

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby earthling » Thu May 21, 2015 10:40 am

The root of the culture wars is that such dogma was written by men to begin with, repressive men.

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Thu May 21, 2015 8:37 pm

All that Bible stuff is fine if this country was a theocracy. However I thought this was a secular country. Our country should be free to decide what is allowable or not allowable. It doesn't matter if it is sinful or not. Our freedom of religion gives you the right to follow this guidance found in the Bible in your life. There is a saying in the Bible about rendering to Caesar what is Caesar's and render to God what is God's.

mean
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Re: Gay marriage

Postby mean » Fri May 22, 2015 12:43 pm

I shall render unto Caesar a salad, with grilled chicken.

earthling
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Re: Gay marriage

Postby earthling » Fri May 22, 2015 2:52 pm

Ireland is voting on gay marriage today and is expected to pass if young voters show up. If so, will be first country to pass by popular vote. All political parties support it. Major change from what was considered most conservative Euro country just a couple decades ago.

http://news.yahoo.com/irish-vote-gay-ma ... 58359.html

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby FangKC » Sat May 23, 2015 7:33 pm

Ireland approved gay marriage--62 to 38 percent. It is the first country to approve gay marriage by popular vote.

http://tinyurl.com/kv9ndlp

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby earthling » Sun May 24, 2015 11:15 am

Latest US Gallup poll, pretty much inline with Ireland vote.. A 5% drop from the 'opposed' in just a year...

Image

This show various polls that are pretty much inline with above...
http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby FangKC » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:21 pm

Op-ed: For Gays, Life in Lawrence, Kan., Keeps Getting Worse

This man found Lawrence, a college town in Kansas, a liberal refuge in his youth. Somehow, things have changed.

June 1, 2015

...

But with the marriage equality movement picking up steam, there was a backlash against gays in Kansas. People’s attitudes about us changed — where before we felt accepted as "token" gays, we were suddenly third-class citizens. We married in a nearby state, but Kansas's anti–marriage equality law meant our marriage was not recognized in our home state. My husband tried to change his name on his driver’s license, only to be turned down because of Kansas's antigay laws.

Suddenly, Lawrence's hippies and liberals seemed to disappear. Fundamentalist Christian students left Kansas State University and invaded KU. The town lost its charm, becoming a dining and shopping destination for the conservatives of Topeka and Kansas City. Even the public library, which once had the best collections of black-and-white and independent movies, turned "family-oriented," concentrating on children’s books and films. The local farmers’ market, once cool and quaint, turned trendy and aggressive. What used to be a fun place to live became an ultraconservative circus.

Lawrence lost its gay bar. The nude sunbathing area was replaced with a dog park. We heard about young Christian men posing as gay and bi on Craigslist, hoping to force their religious beliefs on others or simply humiliate them.

Living on the west side of Lawrence, once home to famous artists and writers like William S. Burroughs and Langston Hughes, we now felt outnumbered by judgmental, hostile neighbors. Our home and cars were vandalized. The police told us it was homeless people committing the crimes. No officer came out to inspect the damage, until one day a pair of the adolescents harassed the entire neighborhood. It was the first time a police officer showed up at our door, only because our straight neighbors called the police. The other gays in our neighborhood ignored their vandalism, fearing retribution. After having enough, we moved to a more secure place, away from the more affluent, "family-oriented" neighborhood.

...


http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/06/01/op-ed-gays-life-lawrence-kan-keeps-getting-worse?team=social

earthling
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Re: Gay marriage

Postby earthling » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:03 pm

^Not surprising with KS trying as hard as it can to become as backwards as Mississippi, resulting in low growth economy with it (outside JoCo).

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby flyingember » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:40 pm

We heard about young Christian men posing as gay and bi on Craigslist, hoping to force their religious beliefs on others or simply humiliate them.

bet these people won't accept people posing as straight Christians to force atheist beliefs on others.

if they do, more power to them

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby earthling » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:58 am

Gay marriage now legal nationwide....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html

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grovester
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Re: Gay marriage

Postby grovester » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:59 am

Quite the 1-2 punch for conservative republicans, I'm very happy that this is not an off year election as the blowback and turn out will be substantial.

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:11 pm

I would say it is lucky for the GOP that these events happened this year instead of next year during the election period. The country will have a year to sort these items out and give the GOP candidates time to study the public response along with the response of their individual followers. In other words see which way the wind blows before their stands are set in stone. What they are saying now can probably be quite different a few months from now.

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Re: Gay marriage

Postby pash » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:31 pm

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Last edited by pash on Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

earthling
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Re: Gay marriage

Postby earthling » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:38 pm

Might be political suicide for GOP if they keep hounding on this topic through next election. Will be interesting to see how they play cards for next pres election and next seats up in Congress - if gay marriage used as election issue. Not sure if tactics used for GOP abortion fight can apply in this case, as some articles have mentioned. Guess we'll find out. I imagine the GOP will be busy finding loopholes in court ruling that favor their agenda and hit when conditions are right, like if they somehow score GOP pres - then apply loopholes for religious freedom agenda and empowering conservative states. They may as well call themselves the theistic party at this point.

As far as churches, would they lose tax exemption status if denying gay marriages at this point? Some have lost tax exemption for racial discrimination.

Major major cultural shift and impact to traditions going on... and more drastic polarization with it. Breaking out the popcorn...

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grovester
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Re: Gay marriage

Postby grovester » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:48 pm

This will impact congressional elections most. Gerrymandering has prevented districts from moving at the same pace as the country as a whole. Here's hoping a presidential election year combined with moderate disgust will yield a more representative congress.


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