Western States want Missouri River Water Diverted

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FangKC
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Western States want Missouri River Water Diverted

Post by FangKC »

Proposed Missouri River pipeline draws fire

Idea would send water to western states

The Bureau of Land Reclamation has proposed a scheme to divert Missouri River water to western states and cities using pipeline costing billions that would take decades to build.
A group studying ways to get more water to arid western states has proposed building a giant water pipeline to ship millions of gallons from the Missouri River to the Colorado River basin.

Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Nevada are among the states who have said they need the extra water to deal with growing populations and growing energy production needs.
I think this is a bad idea. It raises many questions.

First of all, should it be policy to divert water to arid and desert areas that cannot naturally sustain large populations? Does this eventually create a artificial situation where millions of people continue to move to growing cities in the future at the expense of other existing regions and cities that have good supplies of water?

What happens when those areas grow so large that they become parasitic population centers that suck the life out of other regions? The Colorado River already runs dry at the Mexican border--depriving states in Mexico of water that used to flow there. Cities like Los Angeles already drain distant rivers and valleys, and create a situation where some agricultural parts of California are posed for water wars with urban centers.

With recent drought in the Midwest, and the lowering of the Missouri and Mississippi basin water levels, does this create competition for water resources in a manner that is unsustainable? Midwest states are already fighting over water policy.

Will this create future emergency situations where this policy diverts water to growing urban centers in arid states allowing unsustainable population growth there, and during droughts, decisions have to be made about who gets the water?

Should this type of policy be allowed to drain population and economic development from other regions of the country through artificial means? Shouldn't the federal government instead be promoting policies that attract jobs and retain population in existing cities that are losing population to Sun Belt states? Cities like Cleveland, Detroit, Buffalo, Rochester, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and Chicago. This policy indirectly would encourage continued migration from existing urban areas to ones that cannot sustain populations normally.

Finally, I lived in Phoenix and know that large quantities of water are used for green lawns, parks, and golf courses, or to raise cotton in the desert areas that can't normally sustain that crop. Many homeowners in older parts of Phoenix have berms around their lawns and literally flood their lawns in the evening--from adjacent irrigation canals--to keep their grass green. I have a real problem with water being diverted for these practices.

Since 1992, when I left Phoenix, the metro population has doubled, and it will continue.

It seems to me that this policy only encourages people, jobs, and industry to leave existing older cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Rochester, and Buffalo. These cities sit on vast water resources in the Great Lake Region, and have natural transportation corridors to ship goods. Cities where plenty of water exists naturally.

http://www.kmbc.com/news/kansas-city/Pr ... index.html
shinatoo
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Re: Western States want Missouri River Water Diverted

Post by shinatoo »

Back when Atlanta wanted water from the great lakes the governor of Michigan said "They are wecome to all the water they can use, they just need to move to Michigan."

I would like to extend the same invitation to those in the western states.

Why would this be close to realistic with the water table dropping in all of our great farmland.
shinatoo
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Re: Western States want Missouri River Water Diverted

Post by shinatoo »

Back when Atlanta wanted water from the great lakes the governor of Michigan said "They are wecome to all the water they can use, they just need to move to Michigan."

I would like to extend the same invitation to those in the western states.

Why would this be close to realistic with the water table dropping in all of our great farmland.
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bbqboy
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Re: Western States want Missouri River Water Diverted

Post by bbqboy »

Here's a better article on the subject:
http://www.denverpost.com/environment/c ... nges-water
Personally, bringing icebergs from Alaska sounds as feasible.
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Re: Western States want Missouri River Water Diverted

Post by knucklehead »

My brother is a conductor for Burlington Northern.

They have been informed by management to expect heavier then normal rail volumes this winter through KC to make up for a lack of sufficient water in the Mississippi River to support normal barge traffic.

KC rail movements are affected even though the Mississippi is on the other side of Missouri, because to make room on the Main Chicago to New Orleans lines for dispaced barge cargo, they reroute as much traffic off that line as possible, that loads more traffic on the KC lines. They are willing to do some pretty crazy reroutes to gain volumes.

The Mississippi barge interests have been pressing for bigger water releases from the upstream Missouri River resevoirs. The upstream interests are vehemently opposed to that.

Why is the world do the Western states think the the Missouri River basin folks are going to just give them huge quantities of water? That makes no sense.
chingon
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Re: Western States want Missouri River Water Diverted

Post by chingon »

knucklehead wrote: Why is the world do the Western states think the the Missouri River basin folks are going to just give them huge quantities of water? That makes no sense.
Because boojie white people feel entitled to pretend to recreate in (and thus live near) the "breathtaking scenery" of barren wastelands, so that they don't have to be "bored" by what they see outside their car windows.
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Zorobabel
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Re: Western States want Missouri River Water Diverted

Post by Zorobabel »

I have never understood this. Climate scientists tell us that water resources are going to become scarces in the future, so why should populations be allowed to grow in regions that do not have the water resources to sustain themselves. Albuquerque is an example of a city that is doing this right, in my opinion.
Total yearly water use has declined from 40.6 billion gallons in the mid-1990s to 34.6 billion gallons in 2011. That’s a 25-percent decline, even though the population in the Water Authority’s service area grew about 40 percent (from 441,450 to 634,284) during the same period. - http://www.abcwua.org/
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Re: Western States want Missouri River Water Diverted

Post by Highlander »

Zorobabel wrote:I have never understood this. Climate scientists tell us that water resources are going to become scarces in the future, so why should populations be allowed to grow in regions that do not have the water resources to sustain themselves. Albuquerque is an example of a city that is doing this right, in my opinion.
Total yearly water use has declined from 40.6 billion gallons in the mid-1990s to 34.6 billion gallons in 2011. That’s a 25-percent decline, even though the population in the Water Authority’s service area grew about 40 percent (from 441,450 to 634,284) during the same period. - http://www.abcwua.org/
Vegas is probably on the other end of the spectrum. I was appalled at the waste that goes on in that city both in terms of water and power. Too bad an entire canyon (Glen Canyon) had to be destroyed to supplement the excesses of Vegas.

One of the major problems with cities like Vegas and, especially Phoenix, is that so much of the precious water ends up simply evaporating due to poor conservation practice.
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Re: Western States want Missouri River Water Diverted

Post by phxcat »

Highlander wrote:
Zorobabel wrote:I have never understood this. Climate scientists tell us that water resources are going to become scarces in the future, so why should populations be allowed to grow in regions that do not have the water resources to sustain themselves. Albuquerque is an example of a city that is doing this right, in my opinion.
Total yearly water use has declined from 40.6 billion gallons in the mid-1990s to 34.6 billion gallons in 2011. That’s a 25-percent decline, even though the population in the Water Authority’s service area grew about 40 percent (from 441,450 to 634,284) during the same period. - http://www.abcwua.org/
Vegas is probably on the other end of the spectrum. I was appalled at the waste that goes on in that city both in terms of water and power. Too bad an entire canyon (Glen Canyon) had to be destroyed to supplement the excesses of Vegas.

One of the major problems with cities like Vegas and, especially Phoenix, is that so much of the precious water ends up simply evaporating due to poor conservation practice.
This is something that I have learned to really be concerned with living in Phoenix. So much of what happens here is so unnatural- there are no palm trees in the desert- they are all transplanted here. You have to work so hard here to get grass to grow, and like Fang said, you have to irrigate (it takes a while to get used to watching the school yard flooding every Friday afternoon) to keep the water from evaporating so quickly, but people still so it. I love Vegas, but driving up there, looking at the drop in water level in Lake Mead, and the waste in places like the Bellagio, I always have to wonder how long it will last. There are things that I like about Phoenix, and in my position, I often think about the people who I know who came here from South of the border just looking for a place to survive as well as the many native Arizonas (yes, they do exist), but I don't see myself staying too long. It is not natural to have a city of 4 million in the middle of the desert, and I really wonder how sustainable it will prove to be.

My first thought on this whole issue was about the idea of taking water from east of the Continental Divide and diverting it west. I don;t know enough about physical geography to understand the impact on the river systems and ecology, but I can't imagine it would be a good thing.
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