Flooding on the Missouri

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eomaha.com
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by eomaha.com »

Yeah, this is the river which Lewis and Clark knew.
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

A good place to view the crest of the river this week would be at the top of city hall.  Bring the glasses to magnify the area you are looking at.  Bring camera with a high zoom.  Go to Riverfront - Berkley parks to see it up close.
Did this in '93.
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by splash »

taxi wrote: You need to earn your handle, splash!Just be sure to duck when you go under the bridges!
Ha!  Splashing on a bike would be a feat!

Thanks for all the imput, everyone.  I'll let the rest of my group know we should prepare alternative routes, just in case.
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by KCLover »

Did North Kansas City flood in '93? I can't remember and was 11 in '93, but live in NKC now and am debating on whether or not I should be worried....
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by warwickland »

eomaha.com wrote: Yeah, this is the river which Lewis and Clark knew.
Who's Lewis and Clark?


CHOUTEAU.
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

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Last edited by pash on Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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FangKC
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by FangKC »

Coast Guard closes an additional 100 miles of  the Missouri. It's now closed from St. Joseph to Yankton, ND.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/06/17/29 ... miles.html
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by FangKC »

Platte River (Nebraska) flooding still threatens; only half of snow pack has melted

http://journalstar.com/news/local/artic ... e8d53.html
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by FangKC »

More levee breaches and evacuations. Atchison County has issued an evacuation order for all residents living west of I-29 in Atchison County because of another levee breach near Watson, MO.

More levee breaches have occurred in Holt County resulting in the evacuation of Big Lake, MO.

http://www.ketv.com/r/28287197/detail.html

Watson, MO

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 7&t=h&z=11

Big Lake, MO

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 7&t=h&z=11
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by FangKC »

Missouri River overtops levees in Atchison and Holt counties

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/06/19/29 ... evees.html
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

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FangKC wrote: Two weather anomolies are responsible.  Unusually high snowfall in the Rocky Mountains last winter combined with freakishly high rainfall in the Northern Plains this Spring caused by the evil and dastardly El Nino.
Not to go all "Brownback" on you, but that's really not a good reason considering the amount of flood control dams/reservois the army corps of engineers has at their disposal. The snow fall amounts were high, but not historical - and they are a complete "known" for those managing the water flow. Yes, there was a ton of rain over a two week period in May. But two weeks worth of rain (8-15 inches?) should NOT cause the amount of flooding we're seeing now. Not with the systems we have in place - that are there specifically to control the floods.

Why build all that stuff if we can't handle two anomalies like that?
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

Believe part of the problem was the flooding on the Mississippi, by holding back the water flooding conditions on the Mississippi were not increased.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by FangKC »

Rains pressure Missouri basin, churning flood concerns

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... a=e_du_pub
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by FangKC »

Well, there are a couple of possible explanations.

First of all, I read somewhere that the Rockies haven't seen that level of snow pack since 1912, and since the dams weren't built until 1940s-60s, it was hard to predict the effect on reservoirs based on historical data.  The other thing, it that historical data from that time is very limited, since it was before we had sophisticated satellites and climate tracking.

The other factor is that the snow melt happened faster than normal due to unseasonably warm weather in the Rockies.

However, the reservoirs were mostly full, before the snow melt started impacting them, from the rare high rainfall in the high plains.

As far as the water release goes, there are factors that affect it, and the Corps has to balance them.  They have to keep a certain amount of water in the reservoirs to power the hydro-electrical generators in the dams, and also have enough water in reserve to keep the Missouri high enough through a severe summer drought for for irrigation and transportation.

And as AKP stated, there was also the problem with flooding on the Mississippi in the early Spring to consider.  That flooding occurred before the heavy rainfall in the high plains.
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by scooterj »

KCLover wrote: Did North Kansas City flood in '93? I can't remember and was 11 in '93, but live in NKC now and am debating on whether or not I should be worried....
North Kansas City did not flood...

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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by moderne »

We can blame the Dakotas for wanting to keep the reservoirs full at all times to support recreation and fishing. 
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by WSPanic »

moderne wrote: We can blame the Dakotas for wanting to keep the reservoirs full at all times to support recreation and fishing. 
Probably some truth to that. The Corps of Engineers is in a hard spot. The primary mission of all of those dams and reservoirs is flood control. The corps gets bashed when they are too conservative and the levels are too low to supply irrigation, drinking and recreation in years when flooding isn't an issue. It's a lose/lose for them. But when you look at the scale and cost of flood damages throughout the midwest, it should be easier to say "screw you, we're releasing water early at the expense of recreational activities and possible late season droughts".
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

WSPanic wrote: Probably some truth to that. The Corps of Engineers is in a hard spot. The primary mission of all of those dams and reservoirs is flood control. The corps gets bashed when they are too conservative and the levels are too low to supply irrigation, drinking and recreation in years when flooding isn't an issue. It's a lose/lose for them. But when you look at the scale and cost of flood damages throughout the midwest, it should be easier to say "screw you, we're releasing water early at the expense of recreational activities and possible late season droughts".
Some times they cannot release water to protect fish and wildlife habitat downstream and other times are forced to release to protect habitat downstream.  Then of course you have the releases for the barge traffic.
The Missouri River basin
supports an abundance of wildlife,
including three species that are
federally listed under the
Endangered Species Act: the
endangered pallid sturgeon and
least tern and the threatened
piping plover.
Current operation of the Missouri
River, which is heavily dammed and
channeled, poses a threat to the
survival of these three species.
In the final biological opinion, the
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
recommends returning the river to
more natural flows - a modest
spring rise and modest summer
drop. These recommendations
benefit river species in the
following ways:
Spring release from Fort Peck Dam:
A modest rise in spring flows from
Fort Peck dam will maximize the
amount of warm water habitat
needed by native river species such
as the pallid sturgeon. Cold
water coming from the dam has
caused limited production of these
species in this reach of the river.
The intentional spring release of
warm water over the spillway will
provide the biological cues to
encourage successful spawning by
pallids and other river fish.
Modified releases from
Gavins Point Dam:
The releases from Gavins Point
dam will help create a semblance of
the natural fluctuations of the
Missouri River - rising water in the
spring and the lowering of water in
the summer will provide biological
cues necessary for improved
reproduction from the least tern,
piping plover, and pallid sturgeon.
The rising water washes
nutrients into the river providing
food for river species.
Shorebirds including the least tern
and piping plover nest on sparsely
vegetated sandbars. The higher
spring flows scour channels and
move sand downstream creating
and maintaining high elevation
sandbars that provide resting and
nesting habitat.
The declining water signals the
birds that now is the time to nest
to ensure the young are hatched
with a maximum amount of
available habitat.
Missouri River
Missouri River Endangered Species:
How Do the Service’s
Recommendations Benefit Them?
U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
P.O. Box 25486, DFC
Denver, Colorado 80225-0486
http://www.r6.fws.gov

November 2000
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eomaha.com
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by eomaha.com »

You know... I used to think that, surely, the Corps could have released water sooner to prevent this all from happening.  But then I ran the numbers...

Let's look at Gavins Point... it holds a maximum of 540,000 acre feet of water.

At roughly 325,850 gallons per acre foot... that's about 176 billion gallons.

It's currently discharging 150,000 cubic feet... or about 1.125 million gallons per SECOND.

So, at that rate... it's only going to take -43- hours to empty the entire lake!

That is WAY too small a window... for releasing water 'earlier' to have even made a difference.
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Re: Flooding on the Missouri

Post by pash »

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Last edited by pash on Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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