Election 2010

[mean]

I don't think anyone but the most deluded, hardcore "trickle down" right winger thinks it's a good idea to not let the tax cuts expire for top earners. Probably a good Dem move.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I don't think anyone but the most deluded, hardcore "trickle down" right winger thinks it's a good idea to not let the tax cuts expire for top earners. Probably a good Dem move.

Yeah, but sadly they are still going to likely get their way.  By all accounts the Dems are just threatening the hike on the rich in order to wrangle out various extra spending crap compromises.  Thus we are likely going to wind up giving the upper bracket folks a break AND spend a load more money that we don't have.  Clearly our political leadership (both new and old) is serious about cleaning up this deficit mess.  &&&&&&&&&&  What is the one thing our politicians can all agree to: spend more, tax less. 

[aknowledgeableperson]

Apparently the Dems got your message loud and clear AKP:

Good for the Dems, they finally flexed some muscle.  Now it is time to see what the GOP in the Senate is made of.

[mean]

Oh, it'll go down in flames, easy.

[grovester]

Somehow I think this is all tied in to the deficit commision.  Pass a 2 year extension to keep the economy on track and then blow up the whole stucture.

[LenexatoKCMO]

The sad thing is when the spend more/tax less compromise does get made sometime soon, you just know all these folks who ran as being responsible deficit hawks are going to all bump out there chest and brag about the new sherrif in town.  And even sadder, people are going to eat it up, thinking that they really have caused some sort of positive political change. 

[LenexatoKCMO]

Somehow I think this is all tied in to the deficit commision.  Pass a 2 year extension to keep the economy on track and then blow up the whole stucture.

Ha - they can't even get it out of committee.  You didn't actually believe all that smoke that got blown up our collective asses this fall about fiscal responsibility did you?

[grovester]

It's not a committee in a legistlative sense.  11 of 18, a majority, voted for it, 14 was needed to send it to congress "as is" for a vote.  I would imagine a number of no votes supported most of it, but didn't want to give up all control.  Look for the bulk of this commisions recommendations to be included in both Obama's and congresses budgets in the future.  It was a very worthwile endeavor.

[KCMax]

The sad thing is when the spend more/tax less compromise does get made sometime soon, you just know all these folks who ran as being responsible deficit hawks are going to all bump out there chest and brag about the new sherrif in town.  And even sadder, people are going to eat it up, thinking that they really have caused some sort of positive political change. 

They froze federal employee salaries!!!!! Don't you think that will MORE than close the budget deficit???? &&&&

[ComandanteCero]

fiery speech from Bernie Sanders, lots of sobering figures (worth watching the whole thing):

[Highlander]

fiery speech from Bernie Sanders, lots of sobering figures (worth watching the whole thing):

I watched the entire clip.  While he is right on the mark at describing the symptoms of a failing economy, he only briefly touches on the real reason.  Rather than engage in class warfare, just be honest, we produce less and less every year, we have become a service economy and with that scenario, the richest will be always get richer at the expense of the middle class because the jobs being created in the service industry just don't pay decent wages.  Those industries that we do have that actually produce something and bring that wealth back to the US, like, for instance, the oil industry where workers like myself make good wages and spend that money in our economy, are pariahs and most Americans would rather just shut them down.  We want to be the world's leading consumer of energy without any of the issues associated with producing it and we want to be the primary consumer of goods in the world without producing anything ourselves.  Something is going to have to give. 

There are lot's of reasons for a failed economy and I am sure greed among the richest few plays a part, maybe even a big part (my father's small business struggles to compete with a behomoth determined to put him out of business), but it is certainly not the primary cause of our troubles.  We are a decling producer of goods and until we can turn that around, things aren't going to be any better regardless of any changes to our tax code. 

[phuqueue]

In a rare Saturday session, Senate Democrats and Republicans remained at loggerheads over whether to extend the George W. Bush-era tax cuts to all taxpayers, ratcheting up the pressure on lawmakers to try to reach agreement before the tax cuts expire at the end of the year.

With Republicans unified in opposition, Democrats, as expected, fell short of the votes needed to overcome a filibuster and extend the tax cuts for all but the very wealthy.

Huh, weird, I feel like someone said it was "a bunch of bull" that the GOP would use obstructionist tactics to kill this.  Must be imagining things.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 9885.story

[mean]

Rather than engage in class warfare, just be honest, we produce less and less every year, we have become a service economy and with that scenario, the richest will be always get richer at the expense of the middle class because the jobs being created in the service industry just don't pay decent wages. 

Agreed, but why? Is it because domestic companies have found it more profitable to product things in other countries, and, if so, how much of that is due to government policy encouraging such behavior? Is it because American consumers demand rock-bottom prices?

Of course, part of it must be because some foreign manufacturers (such as those in Japan) have been able to produce higher quality products.

Ultimately, can we ever get our manufacturing economy back?

[phuqueue]

Our manufacturing economy never left -- still the biggest in the world.  It's just growing more slowly than China's, and it represents a considerably smaller percentage of our GDP compared to other countries and compared to what it was historically.  Maybe there's some benchmark percentage of the economy that needs to be devoted to manufacturing, and maybe we fall short of that benchmark and that's where our problems are coming from.  I dunno, I'm no economist or anything.  But the simple notion that we don't make things anymore is incorrect.  We still make more things than any other country in the world (although we stand to be eclipsed by China in the next few years, owing not to our "decline" but to China's higher rate of growth).  Not to say we couldn't stand to have retained some of the many, many manufacturing jobs that have indisputably been lost to other countries or that it wouldn't be great to bring them back, just that the death of American manufacturing is an overblown misconception.

Our manufacturing advantage is largely in high-tech industrial stuff, not consumer products, which is why people see that everything they buy is made in China or Malaysia or Honduras or whatever third world country.  I suspect that these things flow to those countries because yes, it's probably quite a bit more profitable to make them over there.  But those same countries and their workforces simply aren't educated or equipped to build airline engines and whatnot (although China is entering that market, gonna try to compete with Boeing and Airbus).  We need to play to our strengths and establish ourselves as leaders in fields of new emerging technologies (alternative energy would be a great candidate, but we don't really seem to care while China, Japan, and Europe are all making great strides).  Barring the collapse of global trade as we know it, we're never going to return to making soccer balls and tennis shoes in any appreciable quantity, and people who get all hung up on the country of origin of all the shit they just bought at Walmart should not be our target consumer.

[Highlander]

Our manufacturing economy never left -- still the biggest in the world.

Kind of misleading.  It's still the largest in the world but it's half the size it was 20 years ago.

While this fits into the high tech category, when you can sell a single F-18 for between 40-50 million dollars or F-35 for 100 million, it goes a long way to even the balance in trade.  What we do not manufacture so much are consumer goods.  

[aknowledgeableperson]

Huh, weird, I feel like someone said it was "a bunch of bull" that the GOP would use obstructionist tactics to kill this.  Must be imagining things.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 9885.story

Don't forget about the Dems that sided with the GOP.  Anyway, this was just for show for the Dems, Obama is working with the GOP on a compromise that should be ironed out in a few days.  Obama is pulling a Clinton or two.

Look for the next session of Congress for the GOP to work with the Pres instead of Congressional Dems.  For the most part the Congressional Dems are out of the mainstream for now with the public.

[LenexatoKCMO]

This compromise just seems like one of Obama's biggest political blunders to date.  With the right maneuvering, he could have really driven a wedge between Repubs and some of the lower income, blue collar, rural folks the conservatives have been drawing in.  If the tax break had been delayed, it could have easily have been pinned on the Pubs and forced attention on where their bread is buttered.  But what does he get out of this compromise?  No one is going to give him any credit for extending the breaks.  Other than the unemployed, no one really gives a shit about those benefits anymore.  He ultimately just pisses off the more ideological portion of his base more.  It makes no sense. 

[bobbyhawks]

This compromise just seems like one of Obama's biggest political blunders to date.  With the right maneuvering, he could have really driven a wedge between Repubs and some of the lower income, blue collar, rural folks the conservatives have been drawing in.  If the tax break had been delayed, it could have easily have been pinned on the Pubs and forced attention on where their bread is buttered.  But what does he get out of this compromise?  No one is going to give him any credit for extending the breaks.  Other than the unemployed, no one really gives a shit about those benefits anymore.  He ultimately just pisses off the more ideological portion of his base more.  It makes no sense. 

I still think it is better than having the Republican lead Congress pass a 10 year retroactive extension in the next session.  This at least makes this an issue in another two years, hopefully once our economy has shown sustained growth and unemployment is below 7% or 8%.  The only problem with that is that the Republicans are now poised to take credit for any success that the US has in the next two years.  All speculation, though.

Without a compromise, the Republicans would just point a finger at the President and his former Democratic majority, claim they were unwilling to compromise with the "majority" of Americans, and pass the tax cut anyway for a longer period of time (which would also cost many millions to fix logistically).  With this, the Repubs cannot say that he is unwilling to reach across the isle.  He will use this moment for the next two years every time they say he is vetoing down party lines.

[grovester]

Obama would have been blamed for "raising taxes" and any ecomomic stumbles in the next 2 years would be tied to that.  Now he's a compromiser and the R's own a BIG part of the deficit moving forward.  If the ecomomy is better in 2012 the cuts are gone, probably as part of overall tax reform/deficit reduction.  Or it's the issue for 2012, and not a bad one to run on.

[aknowledgeableperson]

With this, the Repubs cannot say that he is unwilling to reach across the isle.

with this, also, the pres and the dems cannot say the GOP is unwilling to reach across the aisle.

maybe the best thing to happen to this country at this time is the GOP taking over the House.  both sides have to reach across in order to get anything done.