Home Theatre PC (HTPC) Discussion

[im2kull]

Figured I'd start a new topic for HTPC discussion, rather than go too far off topic in the Time Warner HD thread.
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Home Theatre PC's are finally starting to get some big news, and become more and more mainstream.  Cable Labs and Microsoft just recently announced an agreement to bring Cable Card Certification to every copy of Windows 7 sold, which will allow a way for consumers to get Every HD channel offered by cable companies on their HTPCs.  This was not possible in the past, and is the single largest recent event in regards to HTPC's and their development.  Also rumored are tuning cards being created by Dish & DirecTV, which will allow for usage of either in a dedicated HTPC.

I myself have had a HTPC for a few years now.  It was not purchased from an OEM builder (Sony, HP, etc)...but rather it was built by myself for the reason that I needed something that no single company could offer at that time.  I hope this thread will make everyone reconsider buying a TIVO, or any other third-party Digital Video Recorder (..Or renting a Cable-company DVR) in favor of building or buying a Vista or Windows 7 based HTPC.  While the initial price of a HTPC is becoming closer and closer to that of third party DVR's like TIVO, the long term prices are clearly in favor of HTPCs since they have no rental fees, no upgrade cost markups, and can lower the cost of providing cable to multiple TV sets in a single household.  The benefits of a HTPC far outweigh the benefits of any  stand-alone DVR, by 10 to 1.  I hope that some of you will consider a HTPC for not just its recording capabilitys, but for its ability to become a central part of all the digital media in your life.

[im2kull]

Here is a few snapshots of what a modern HTPC can do..
Sorry about the wide pictures causing a scroll bar, click on "View", the "Zoom" then "75%" if you're using Internet Explorer and you should be able to view the entire image without having to scroll side to side.
*This is currently a Windows Vista based machine*

Here's a link to the original, unsized, 1080P screenshots:
http://www.getdropbox.com/gallery/25436 ... s?h=a81c4c

Basic Media Center Features (Included Out-of-the-Box):
Window'd TV

Customizable TV Guide matching your cable/satellite subscription.

DVR (Digital Video Recording) capability with a user-defined amount of storage

A photo library (Can also do automatic slideshows to view photo's on the TV screen)

A Music Library supporting Album art, and ID3 Tagging (For all the associated Information/lyrics/etc)


Networked drives for the Music/Pictures/Other Media



Additional Features That I've Added
-All of which are contained within the Media Center interface...aka...No getting up off the couch, keyboard, or mouse needed!

ESPN Bottomline

Media Center Browser (A full web browser contained Within Media Center, so that you don't have to minimize Media Center and use Firefox/Internet Explorer)


Menu Builder - Allows you to customize the menus within Media Center

My Drinks - One of my favorite programs, literrally has thousands of drinks in its database.

My Movies - Great program to organize and import physical DVDs/Blurays into a custom database on your HTPC w/o having to waste the space on actually copying them to a hard drive.


Media Browser - The absolute best tool for organizing digital media and displaying it in a useful manner.


How I display movies older than a year.

After clicking on the cover you get this:


At which point you can watch an HD trailer to refresh your memory (This image is compresed, in real life it looks flawless):

How I display new releases (1 year old or less).


How I display TV Shows


Which takes you to the individual seasons:

Followed by the individual episodes:


..and that's just touching the surface!

Also, each one of those photos were shot in "windowed" mode, as for some reason you can't get screenshots of Vista Media Center in full-screen...so if there's anything odd around the edges that's why.  Those are also highly compressed for internet viewing, so if you want to view the original ones click here..
http://www.getdropbox.com/gallery/25436 ... s?h=a81c4c

[KCLofts]

Been looking into this since Tivo is apparently never going to release anything new.

Only problem I see the Extender issue.  It sounds like XBox is the only extender that is still in production and that all other manufacturers have stopped making their products (although there do seem to be a few old units floating around).

Assuming I don't want an XBox and want to locate my server remotely and access via multiple TVs, what are my options?

[KCMax]

This is helpful. I hate my DVR and am looking for alternatives.

[im2kull]

Been looking into this since Tivo is apparently never going to release anything new.

Only problem I see the Extender issue.  It sounds like XBox is the only extender that is still in production and that all other manufacturers have stopped making their products (although there do seem to be a few old units floating around).

Assuming I don't want an XBox and want to locate my server remotely and access via multiple TVs, what are my options?

You can use any of the past "Version 2" extenderes.  There's still plenty on the market, on craigslist, or on Ebay to be had for cheap.  Rumor is that Microsoft pulled their liscensing for 3rd party extenders, and its rumored that they will either be making more capable extenders themselves in the near future...and possibly releasing a "Slim" verson of the 360 (That could of course be used as an extender too).

There's also much talk about Microsoft releasing the "Extender" software in the future, which would allow you to build a cheap barebones PC (Small, quiet, upgradable) of your own to use as an Extender...whcih would be nice to say the least.  Zero drawbacks there.

Currently extenders do have some drawbacks, I'll be the first one to tell you that.  Here's the main ones:
-Lack of support for a few popular file types (Lack the codecs).  Meaning everything has to be transcoded on-the-fly to be playable/watchable on the extender (most don't support MKV or MP4 file types).  This is easily done, but can be a hassle if your HTPC lacks a fast processor to do the transcoding. **This doesn't impact TV playback, only playing back some of the generic video files stored on your pc..like downloaded movies, etc**
-Files with AAC 6 channel audio have to be transcoded to AC3 (Dolby Digital) if you want 6 ch audio output from the extender...since virtually no Surround Sound Receviers can decode the AAC format (All can decode AC3)


Benefits:
-NO monthly charge for DVR service
-As much storage as you deem nessecary..based entirely upon how you have it built..and its always expandable.
-NO monthly charge for having a "Cable Box".  You can simply get a Cable Card for digital cable and skip paying the "Per TV" charge to Time Warner.
-FAST...No more lagging menu's, etc. 
-Its a PC..so you can do whatever you want with it.  Hell, I play a few games from time to time in 1080P HD..which is quite fun.

I'll try and update this thread with some new pictures of my Windows 7 setup later tonight or tomorow.  Its much more feature filled now!

[im2kull]

This is helpful. I hate my DVR and am looking for alternatives.

If you have any specific questions lemme know.  I've pretty much mastered what a HTPC with Windows Media Center can, and can't do.

I'm actually quite surprised more people don't use it, since it comes on nearly every PC with Windows 7 or Vista installed.

[ignatius]

^Can the Win7 version play a DVD ISO directly or does it have to be mounted?  I'd think it would need a plugin for that.  VLC Player can do this.

Tried Boxee.  Not bad but it won't play videos on my connected HDMI panel, only on primary screen.

[ignatius]

-Lack of support for a few popular file types (Lack the codecs).  Meaning everything has to be transcoded on-the-fly to be playable/watchable on the extender (most don't support MKV or MP4 file types).  This is easily done, but can be a hassle if your HTPC lacks a fast processor to do the transcoding. **This doesn't impact TV playback, only playing back some of the generic video files stored on your pc..like downloaded movies, etc**
-Files with AAC 6 channel audio have to be transcoded to AC3 (Dolby Digital) if you want 6 ch audio output from the extender...since virtually no Surround Sound Receviers can decode the AAC format (All can decode AC3)

Would installing K-Lite codec pack resolve this?

[KCMax]

If you have any specific questions lemme know.  I've pretty much mastered what a HTPC with Windows Media Center can, and can't do.

I'm actually quite surprised more people don't use it, since it comes on nearly every PC with Windows 7 or Vista installed.

I'm pretty technologically ignorant, so talk to me like I'm a 4 year old. Basically, from what I understand these are PCs that can be used essentially as DVRs, although much more flexible in function.

So say I get one, you are saying that I will incur no additional charges from my cable provider? Wow, that would be awesome.

Also, what do these typically run and what is the difference between the lower priced units and the higher priced units?

[NDTeve]

I'm pretty technologically ignorant, so talk to me like I'm a 4 year old. Basically, from what I understand these are PCs that can be used essentially as DVRs, although much more flexible in function.

So say I get one, you are saying that I will incur no additional charges from my cable provider? Wow, that would be awesome.

Also, what do these typically run and what is the difference between the lower priced units and the higher priced units?

bump.

[ignatius]

More info on TWC CableCards...

http://www.timewarnercable.com/kansasci ... ecard.html

Do I order one from the Net and have TWC activate or do you have to lease the card from TWC?

I've searched google shopping, etc and don't see any tru2way pc cards at all.

[bobbyhawks]

Been looking into this since Tivo is apparently never going to release anything new.

Only problem I see the Extender issue.  It sounds like XBox is the only extender that is still in production and that all other manufacturers have stopped making their products (although there do seem to be a few old units floating around).

Assuming I don't want an XBox and want to locate my server remotely and access via multiple TVs, what are my options?

The ASUS O Play retails for $99 with HDMI out.  My friend just got one, though I can't verify the interface or how it performs.  I use Boxee, which can be installed on Linux, Windows, and Mac OS's.  The thing I like most about Boxee is how versatile it is.  It is mostly remote based navigation, but allows for custom configuration if you want to really get into it.  A Boxee Box, which will sell from D-Link for around $200, is set to be released within the next month or so and will have HDMI out. 

I don't have access to screenshots currently, but I encourage you to look on Boxee.tv for an introduction if you are interested.  Boxee will auto-discover any dvd-rips/mp3s/etc. you have and provide links to information, trailers, music videos, etc.  It has built in links to things like MLB TV, Netflix, Hulu, and many more.  Boxee will discover any shared media over an entire network, running from any OS, that you point it to.  I personally don't think an interface telling me which physical DVDs I have to get off the couch and find/insert is really that helpful, so I made the $115 investment in a 1.5 TB external hard drive and have ripped most of my DVDs to this.  Allegedly, the new beta of Boxee will aggregate all of your local media, all available streams from Hulu, Netflix, Joost, etc., into one searchable list.

[bobbyhawks]

Tried Boxee.  Not bad but it won't play videos on my connected HDMI panel, only on primary screen.

What are you running Boxee from?  Are you sure that the HDMI display works without Boxee running?  It is possible that you would need to tweak the setting within Boxee, but if the regular Boxee interface displays on the flat panel, I don't understand why it would decide not to play videos locally.  The only other issue I can think of would be that you are trying to play a DRM'd file purchased through iTunes or similar.

[im2kull]

^Can the Win7 version play a DVD ISO directly or does it have to be mounted?  I'd think it would need a plugin for that.  VLC Player can do this.

Tried Boxee.  Not bad but it won't play videos on my connected HDMI panel, only on primary screen.

Yep.

You have to install a mounting program, like Daemon Tools Lite, but then it will automatically mount & unmount while in WMC.  Most my DVD's are copy'd as straight ISOs to a file server, and it works wonderfully.

[im2kull]

Would installing K-Lite codec pack resolve this?

Yes.

Once Win7 has the support for that file type then it will automatically "Transcode" (Re-encode to Windows TV file..since that's the only filetype extenders support) and stream it to an extender.  It works great, however if your computer isn't fast enough then windows will adjust the quality of the transcoding to make sure that it can "Stream" it.  So if you want to stream something that's HD, with HD quality, then you probably need at least a powerful dual core CPU in the HTPC itself.

This is untill the next round of extenders come out, which will hopefully support MP4, MKV, and other file types without the need for "Transcoding".

[im2kull]

I'm pretty technologically ignorant, so talk to me like I'm a 4 year old. Basically, from what I understand these are PCs that can be used essentially as DVRs, although much more flexible in function.

So say I get one, you are saying that I will incur no additional charges from my cable provider? Wow, that would be awesome.

Also, what do these typically run and what is the difference between the lower priced units and the higher priced units?

Exactly.
No Charge for "Cable boxes" in each room (Since you can use something like an Xbox 360 as an "Extender")
No Charge for the DVR service

Differences in lower priced vs high priced are only things related to PC's...so for instance, the biggest difference will be Speed.  2nd largest difference will be Functions/Capabilitys.

OEM (Sony, HP, Dell) HTPC's generally start at $700 or more.  However I've built a few myself for as little as $250...upwards of $500.  Its really pretty hard to build one costing more than $400, however the TV Tuners (Especially Cable Card ones) can get expensive.  Take for instance the new Cable Card tuner being made by CETON Corporation.  It is one card, yet duplicated itself to make the PC think that there's 4...thus eliminating the need for 4 seperate cards.  This means that you can run TV to 4 sets, and only have to pay one fee from Time Warner.  Something like that is going to cost you $399 in itself..the card...but long term will save you money versus any other route.

[im2kull]

More info on TWC CableCards...

http://www.timewarnercable.com/kansasci ... ecard.html

Do I order one from the Net and have TWC activate or do you have to lease the card from TWC?

I've searched google shopping, etc and don't see any tru2way pc cards at all.

I've heard that you can buy one, so that you don't have to pay the rental fee's (Something like 5 bucks a month, per card).  However IDK about how legit that is, so I would just call TW once you get something that has a Cable Card slot and then they'll come out and set you up with a CC and begin the monthly rental.  You then pay the CC rental versus renting a Cable Box.

2way Cards aren't available for the PC yet..sadly.  They should be within the next year, but who knows.  That's only a real downfall if you intend to use services like Pay-Per-View.  You can always keep One Cable box, and simply output it into the PC...at which point you can still use the Windows Media Center interface, you'll just be limited to one "Tuner" with full 2way support.  There would be no degradation of quality though.

[ignatius]

I think you need tru2way for SDV (switched digital video) channels on TWC, which is just about every HD channel.  If the case, I'll guess I'll wait for that to come to PC cards before replacing cable box.

[im2kull]

I think you need tru2way for SDV (switched digital video) channels on TWC, which is just about every HD channel.  If the case, I'll guess I'll wait for that to come to PC cards before replacing cable box.

SDV is supported by both Windows Media Center, and the upcoming line of 4-way Cable Card Tuners, along with the current OCUR ATI Cable Card Tuners.  All you have to get is an SDV Tuning Adapted from Time Warner.  Then you get SDV.  Even without it you will receive just about every HD Channel (They don't require 2 way communication).  The only ones you can't get with a Unidirectional card are On-Demand type things.  TW has a thorough list, here:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/kansasci ... nnels.html

Or to sum it up, you can't currently get these channels:
   
Channel # - Service
2 - VOD (Video On Demand)
100-150 - VOD (Video On Demand)
314 - HBO (On Demand)
332 - MAX (On Demand)
356 - Showtime (On Demand)
367 - Starz (On Demand)
392 - TMC (On Demand)
396 - Playboy (On Demand)
455 - Adult (On Demand)
458 - Spice (On Demand)
459 - Erotic (On Demand)
985-989 - VOD

So you can still get all your normal HBO, MAX, Showtime, & Premium Movie Channels...along with ALL HD content (ESPN, TNT, etc)...just not the "On Demand" stuff.  Not a huge downside.  Remember that with Media Centers ability to schedule and record HD shows, you can simply collect a library of content that way..rather than have to use the "On Demand" feature.

Also, Cable Card technology is taking giant leaps and bounds forwards at the moment.  Shouldn't be too much longer untill CC's are much more mainstream.  The cable companys hate it, which is the sole reason that it's taken so long to roll out.  Its going to cost them, so of course they'll do just about anything to stop it.

Here's a great piece of literature written by Joe Chauvin, the Program Manager on the Media Center team responsible for US Digital Cable support.  Interestingly enough his article is nearly obsolete with how quickly the industry is now advancing Cable Card technology.  There is still some good information in there though, and that website...The Green Button, is the absolute best way to speak directly to someone on the actual Windows Media Center team about any technical questions you might have, or any questions concerning future updates and compatibility.

TGB is a great asset.

[im2kull]

Also looks like Silicone Dust is going to produce a Cable Card version of the HD Homerun.  Its an external tuner, but instead of using USB..it uses Ethernet...so it can be placed anywhere in your house, connected to a network, and then used on ANY PC (Media Center or not).  Happauge & Avermedia are both supposedly releasing CC Tuners too, which is good news...since ATI is the only company with one on the market right now.

http://www.silicondust.com/
Check out their website, on the right hand column they have a link to their Cable Card press release.