What Will Save the Suburbs?

Come here to talk about topics that are not related to development, or even Kansas City.
aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12187
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Mon May 04, 2009 10:11 pm

Midtownkid wrote:While we are on the subject of DC...I have been noticing a ton of baby strollers and toddlers running around Capitol Hill in the last year I have been working here.  Not every one makes a break for the burbs.  It's really cool that semi-wealthy, eco-minded/progressive families remain in this city even with DC's horrible schools and bad rep for crime. 


Horrible schools or not, wonder how many of those families actually use public education as opposed to the network of private schools in the area (like the Obama's and the Clinton's)?
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

User avatar
Midtownkid
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2693
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:27 pm
Location: Roanoke, KCMO

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby Midtownkid » Tue May 05, 2009 9:04 am

Tons do, I'm sure...just like in most major cities.  Most of the kids in Brookside and midtown do (I did).  It's the only way to go.  Although, if all those families sent their kids to public school all or the sudden, the schools would probably improve.  The government can only do so much to 'fix' schools.  Public schools really need to be full of kids who have parents that care about them and their education.  (and discipline them) 
Check out KC Kids Comics! http://www.kckidscomics.webs.com/

mlind
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:40 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby mlind » Tue May 05, 2009 11:55 am

The first suburbs were developed around streetcar lines.  Of course now, we don't consider those neighborhoods as suburbs.

User avatar
Midtownkid
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2693
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:27 pm
Location: Roanoke, KCMO

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby Midtownkid » Tue May 05, 2009 1:10 pm

mlind wrote:The first suburbs were developed around streetcar lines.  Of course now, we don't consider those neighborhoods as suburbs.


Yep, Roanoke and Hyde Park were considered 'suburbs' a long time ago.  I think Streetcar Suburbs are some of the best places to live.  They usually offer a perfect mix of city and nature with lots of things within walking distance.
Check out KC Kids Comics! http://www.kckidscomics.webs.com/

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27677
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby KCPowercat » Tue May 05, 2009 4:12 pm

According to the census, only 34.6% of households in the us have someone under 18 years of age...and in cities/metro areas I would challenge that # is even lower. That's a large majority of households not driven by 'good schools'
http://downtownkcmo.blogspot.com

Tweeting live from Big 12 tournament @downtownkc

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27677
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby KCPowercat » Tue May 05, 2009 4:15 pm

In kc metro, its 35.1% of households with a school-aged individual.
http://downtownkcmo.blogspot.com

Tweeting live from Big 12 tournament @downtownkc

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12187
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Tue May 05, 2009 7:25 pm

KCPowercat wrote:That's a large majority of households not driven by 'good schools'


Generally speaking, though, you do have people who want to live in a good school district even if they are too old for kids.  The belief being property values are maintained better and the belief that when it comes time to sell the house will be easier to sell (that's why even older people will vote for school tax increases).  At the same time you also have individuals or couples who want 'good schools' for their future children.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27677
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby KCPowercat » Wed May 06, 2009 12:29 am

aknowledgeableperson wrote:Generally speaking, though, you do have people who want to live in a good school district even if they are too old for kids.  The belief being property values are maintained better and the belief that when it comes time to sell the house will be easier to sell (that's why even older people will vote for school tax increases).  At the same time you also have individuals or couples who want 'good schools' for their future children.


Do you have stats to back that up?  I have no idea how many people w/o kids care about the school district. 

I don't have kids, I don't care, other than I want all kids to have top quality schools.  Until you provide some sort of number, I'll assume that's just your opinion....stats are showing many boomers are looking to downsize their lives to smaller living spaces, downtown condo spaces seem to be filling that need well...and I've seen a number of people move downtown that are "empty nesters"...not to mention young married couples...I'll go query them to their desire to breed though.

About now is when you insert personal insults FYI.
http://downtownkcmo.blogspot.com

Tweeting live from Big 12 tournament @downtownkc

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12187
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Wed May 06, 2009 10:59 am

Where did I say people were not moving downtown into smaller spaces and had no concern about schools?  Yes, some are moving downtown but at the same time others are staying in the burbs and even others are moving into retirement communities.  They are moving all over the place.  All that was said was "generally".

Pay attention on the next round of school votes.  Of course some will pass and some will fail but for those that do pass I think you will find that many people who don't have kids in school will vote for the bond issue, tax increase, or whatever.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27677
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby KCPowercat » Wed May 06, 2009 11:09 am

Voting for school funding and basing your residence on the quality of schools are completely different topics.

My point is people don't seem to realize in these discussions that over 60% of households don't have school aged kids.
http://downtownkcmo.blogspot.com

Tweeting live from Big 12 tournament @downtownkc

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8838
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby Highlander » Wed May 06, 2009 11:59 am

KCPowercat wrote:Do you have stats to back that up?  I have no idea how many people w/o kids care about the school district. 

I don't have kids, I don't care, other than I want all kids to have top quality schools.  Until you provide some sort of number, I'll assume that's just your opinion....stats are showing many boomers are looking to downsize their lives to smaller living spaces, downtown condo spaces seem to be filling that need well...and I've seen a number of people move downtown that are "empty nesters"...not to mention young married couples...I'll go query them to their desire to breed though.


I think that is a commonly acknowledged phenomena.  Quality schools keep the home values up, I have two childless gay friends who chose their home based on that criteria.  Why do you think Prairie Village can command what some might consider outrageous prices for some pretty small homes, people want to be in the SM East HS area.  In this rare instance, I agree with AKP.    I think a lot of empty nesters are, however, moving into the urban environments for whatever reasons.  I certainly plan to when the kids move out.   

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27677
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby KCPowercat » Wed May 06, 2009 12:14 pm

Never said all people w/o kids don't choose a location based on schools. I think that factor is overhyped when it comes to these suburb discussions.
http://downtownkcmo.blogspot.com

Tweeting live from Big 12 tournament @downtownkc

User avatar
ComandanteCero
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6222
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:40 am
Location: OP

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby ComandanteCero » Wed May 06, 2009 8:16 pm

Yeah, i think the "OMG suburbs are going to revert to NATURE due to the recession!!!" meme is one of those ridiculous extrapolations that give columnists easy columns to write, and newspapers eye catching topics.

The reality is that most suburbs aren't going to disappear any time soon, certainly not revert to nature.  They will evolve, for better or for worse.
KC Region is all part of the same animal regardless of state and county lines.
Think on the Regional scale.

User avatar
GRID
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14056
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby GRID » Wed May 06, 2009 8:57 pm

ComandanteCero wrote:Yeah, i think the "OMG suburbs are going to revert to NATURE due to the recession!!!" meme is one of those ridiculous extrapolations that give columnists easy columns to write, and newspapers eye catching topics.

The reality is that most suburbs aren't going to disappear any time soon, certainly not revert to nature.  They will evolve, for better or for worse.


I was hoping somebody on this forum had a clue :).

Suburbs are not going anywhere.  There is almost zero signs of them going anywhere anytime soon.  Some empty strip malls and falling housing values?

Yea, ok.

User avatar
KCMax
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 24051
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
Contact:

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby KCMax » Thu May 07, 2009 9:49 am

What we will see though, is more suburbs facing the problems traditional cities have faced. Blight, poorer populations, infrastructure overcrowding, businesses threatening relocation without economic subsidies...
SAVE THE PLAZA - FROM ZOMBIES! Find out how at:

http://twitter.com/TheKCRag

User avatar
chrizow
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 16935
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:43 am

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby chrizow » Thu May 07, 2009 9:55 am

KCMax wrote:What we will see though, is more suburbs facing the problems traditional cities have faced. Blight, poorer populations, infrastructure overcrowding, businesses threatening relocation without economic subsidies...


this is already happening.  for all the boomtown suburbs like those in johnson county, you have vast swaths of suburbs experiencing relative decline.  look at parts of SKC, grandview, raytown, independence, parts of the northland, etc.  most suburbia is not upper-middle class/beige.  it's becoming delapidated and depressed.  in some cities, some suburbs are facing the same problems with crime as the inner cities that the suburbs were constructed to escape.  this is somewhat true here (see ruskin, hickman area, grandview) but even more so on the coasts - burbs of DC, LA, SF, NY, BOS, etc. can be pretty ghetto.

interestingly, raytown seems to be bouncing back, though it's bouncing back in the wrong way - all the mom and pop businesses that closed over the last 40 years are now being replaced with new wal-marts, applebees, etc. 

User avatar
KCMax
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 24051
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
Contact:

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby KCMax » Thu May 07, 2009 10:06 am

KCMax wrote:What we will see though, is more suburbs facing the problems traditional cities have faced. Blight, poorer populations, infrastructure overcrowding, businesses threatening relocation without economic subsidies...


Empty arenas...
SAVE THE PLAZA - FROM ZOMBIES! Find out how at:

http://twitter.com/TheKCRag

User avatar
Midtownkid
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2693
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:27 pm
Location: Roanoke, KCMO

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby Midtownkid » Thu May 07, 2009 10:31 am

chrizow wrote:this is already happening.  for all the boomtown suburbs like those in johnson county, you have vast swaths of suburbs experiencing relative decline.  look at parts of SKC, grandview, raytown, independence, parts of the northland, etc.  most suburbia is not upper-middle class/beige.  it's becoming delapidated and depressed.  in some cities, some suburbs are facing the same problems with crime as the inner cities that the suburbs were constructed to escape.  this is somewhat true here (see ruskin, hickman area, grandview) but even more so on the coasts - burbs of DC, LA, SF, NY, BOS, etc. can be pretty ghetto.

interestingly, raytown seems to be bouncing back, though it's bouncing back in the wrong way - all the mom and pop businesses that closed over the last 40 years are now being replaced with new wal-marts, applebees, etc. 


Definitely true.  I've been saying the same thing for a while.  DC still has a long way to go, but it is on its way to having a rich, upscale center ringed by lower class burbs.  (Esp on the MD side).  I think a city like San Fran is pretty much like that completely now.  That's the way it is in Europe! 

I think suburbs will at least stop growing at the pace they were in the last 50 years, that have already slowed way down (see economic crisis.)  Lastnight on Nightly News they showes a far-flung, suburban California development that was half finished, then completely demolished as that was less costly than finishing it.  It's only one example, but a powerful one.
Check out KC Kids Comics! http://www.kckidscomics.webs.com/

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12187
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Wed May 13, 2009 10:41 am

Interesting info found:

From city data for zip code 66212.  Almost 70% of that zip code residents live and work in JoCo.

So I will go back to my original post, what will save the suburbs will be jobs.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

mlind
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:40 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: What Will Save the Suburbs?

Postby mlind » Wed May 13, 2009 11:51 am

Midtownkid wrote:Definitely true.  I've been saying the same thing for a while.  DC still has a long way to go, but it is on its way to having a rich, upscale center ringed by lower class burbs.  (Esp on the MD side).  I think a city like San Fran is pretty much like that completely now.  That's the way it is in Europe! 

I think suburbs will at least stop growing at the pace they were in the last 50 years, that have already slowed way down (see economic crisis.)  Lastnight on Nightly News they showes a far-flung, suburban California development that was half finished, then completely demolished as that was less costly than finishing it.  It's only one example, but a powerful one.


The outlying suburbs in the SF Bay area (commute of 25+ miles) are not doing well due to the foreclosures and the malls' dependence on big box and department stores that are closing. 

Interesting article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 005&sc=332

Schools are having trouble due to California's ongoing budget crisis.  The 'better' districts vote to tax themselves to raise funds.  The quality of the schools is a BIG issue is determining where to live.


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests