Election 2008

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jlbomega
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Re: Election 2008

Post by jlbomega » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:01 pm

KCFutbol wrote: I'm a white collar worker for a company that employs union workers. They do a great job, a job most people wouldn't want to do or couldn't do. For this they deserve a decent wage and union representation.
I am not "anti union" however I do believe unions should take responsibility for their part in causing their companies to go belly up.  Auto, Airline, Schools (teachers unions), and to hit close to home the trucking industry unions make their companies increasingly uncompetitive.  YRC is on the verge of bankruptcy because they cannot compete with FedEx and UPS. 

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Maitre D
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Re: Election 2008

Post by Maitre D » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:08 pm

jlbomega wrote: I am not "anti union" however I do believe unions should take responsibility for their part in causing their companies to go belly up.  Auto, Airline, Schools (teachers unions), and to hit close to home the trucking industry unions make their companies increasingly uncompetitive.  YRC is on the verge of bankruptcy because they cannot compete with FedEx and UPS. 
Well I don't think YRC is really in the same space as those 2 firms.  They're mostly long-haul shippers with large carries, not mass-shipping of smaller packages.  I could be wrong.
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Re: Election 2008

Post by jlbomega » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:59 pm

Maitre D wrote: Well I don't think YRC is really in the same space as those 2 firms.  They're mostly long-haul shippers with large carries, not mass-shipping of smaller packages.   I could be wrong.
There is quite a bit of overlap with the two business models.  I have some friends that work over at YRC.  They are thinking the company will have to be bought out at some point because of their labor agreements are keeping them uncompetitive. 

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Re: Election 2008

Post by Maitre D » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:26 pm

phna wrote: to provide money for things like SCHIP*, job retraining, k-12 education, humanitarian aid, and reducing foreign oil, the only spending items mentioned in the graph.

(*BUSH vetoed a bill to enhance SCHIP last year despite a bipartisan effort to pass it!)

SCHIP was a steaming pile of crap, and it should've been vetoed.  It was nothing more than a clandestine attempt by Dems to move lower-middle class people from private insurance to government insurance.





It is a valid to question to ask how will Obama pay for his plans. But it is an entirely fallacious conclusion to assert as you do, that "liberals" think just cutting one area will support it. Prehaps that bloated government bureaucracy that Bush createe, F.A.T.A.S.S (the Federal Aviation Transportation Administration & Security Sector, or whatever it is called) could be trimmed down too, or is it too liberal for you?

Stop concluding anyone that pokes holes in the arguments made is a "liberal".

The WSJ ran a great column the other day about who Obama's biggest foes are now.  The answer?  His own party's leaders in the House, that's who.  Carter & Clinton ran into the exact same issue when they were elected, their Party's House leaders just assumed they were there to rubber-stamp their agenda.  And they'll fight to get it done.


And consider his staff:  What's the over-under on the time it takes for the first Obama appointee to write a tell-all book?  A year?
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Re: Election 2008

Post by jlbomega » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:38 pm

Maitre D wrote:
And consider his staff:  What's the over-under on the time it takes for the first Obama appointee to write a tell-all book?   A year?
Right after the first hack job book about Palin from a McCain staffer.  Ever since Clinton I feel like many staffers want White House jobs just to turn rogue and write a tell all book to cash in. 

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Re: Election 2008

Post by LenexatoKCMO » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:44 pm

jlbomega wrote: Right after the first hack job book about Palin from a McCain staffer. 
Shit that will probably be out before next week is through - got to get it on the shelves before the world forgets her once and for all. 

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Re: Election 2008

Post by Maitre D » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:55 pm

jlbomega wrote: Right after the first hack job book about Palin from a McCain staffer.  Ever since Clinton I feel like many staffers want White House jobs just to turn rogue and write a tell all book to cash in. 
Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.


I find it a bit humorous some McCain people are actually trying to blame her for the loss.  As if he wasn't the problem.  Even funnier considering HE chose her!
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Re: Election 2008

Post by DaveKCMO » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:03 pm

Maitre D wrote:I find it a bit humorous some McCain people are actually trying to blame her for the loss.  As if he wasn't the problem.   Even funnier considering HE chose her!
serious question for you (really!): do you think he would have survived the party machine had he chose someone else?

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Re: Election 2008

Post by NDTeve » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:07 pm

She'll be back. AS much as it might kill feminists and lefties that a women does not represent the Pelosi/Hilary brand of woman.
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Re: Election 2008

Post by Maitre D » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:00 pm

DaveKCMO wrote: serious question for you (really!): do you think he would have survived the party machine had he chose someone else?
This spring I was pretty positive that whoever won the Dem nomination, was going to win the Presidency - regardless of who the GOP chose.
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Re: Election 2008

Post by Beermo » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:14 pm

DaveKCMO wrote: serious question for you (really!): do you think he would have survived the party machine had he chose someone else?
mccain was finished when he gave in to dubya way back in '00 or '01. he lost his maverickancy right there.

my cousin works for siemens in munich and he gets something like 10 weeks vacation. crazy. he's always going somewhere with his family for vacation. they used to do a lot of greece, spain, places like that. now it seems the newest hot spot is croatia and the black sea resorts.

speaking of foreign automakers, honda is moving the production of goldwings and valkyries back to japan for the next model year. goldwings have been made in marysville ohio exclusively since 1980. valkyries have been made here since they were introduced a few years back. my '82 GL1100S was made in ohio.
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phna
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Re: Election 2008

Post by phna » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:08 pm

Maitre D wrote:
SCHIP was a steaming pile of crap, and it should've been vetoed.  It was nothing more than a clandestine attempt by Dems to move lower-middle class people from private insurance to government insurance.
Image


Key Senate Republican blasts Bush on SCHIP veto threat
http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php?action ... b54c967690

I left out the other part of the quote because you're not even on point. There may be an argument to it, and I will look up the unreferenced article.

However, the whole point was to disparage anecdotal comments and opinion, and what is served up? Another pile of crap, an anecdotal opinion without substantiation that apparently contradicts the public record.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has got one. Arguments are like sand castles, they can fall in upon themselves, or with strong enough counter, be demolished. I'd rather have the latter, because it's possible to reconstruct a better one if the previous couldn't hold water. 
Last edited by phna on Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Election 2008

Post by grovester » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:29 am

NDTeve wrote: She'll be back. AS much as it might kill feminists and lefties that a women does not represent the Pelosi/Hilary brand of woman.
I agree, she has the skills that can't be taught, she can get Stevens' seat either now or in 2 years, get some time to learn the issues and build a resume.  Actually so plausible it scares the hell out of me.

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Re: Election 2008

Post by mean » Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:52 pm

Palin is almost certainly gearing up for a prez run in 2012--much like Obama was after 2004. I don't think she has a chance of getting past the primaries, but they said that about Obama, too...  :shock:
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Re: Election 2008

Post by K.C.Highrise » Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:12 pm

God I hope not. She would be even less qualified than Bush Jr.

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Re: Election 2008

Post by Jeff » Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:29 pm

K.C.Highrise wrote: God I hope not. She would be even less qualified than Bush Jr.
Or maybe even less qualified than "The One" ?

Nope

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Re: Election 2008

Post by phxcat » Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:49 pm

mean wrote: Palin is almost certainly gearing up for a prez run in 2012--much like Obama was after 2004. I don't think she has a chance of getting past the primaries, but they said that about Obama, too...  :shock:
I recently saw a survey that showed that 60% of Republicans would like to see her as the pick.
Jeff wrote: Or maybe even less qualified than "The One" ?

Nope
Case in point- and also an inane comment all in one!  OK, if you want to say that both Palin and Obama are underqualified, fine- but this meme that Palin is actually more qualified than Obama is just laughable.

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Re: Election 2008

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:05 am

KCMax wrote: I suspect paying for health care, while Japan and Germany have the governments, not the car companies, pay for health care is a huge expense. There are also legacy costs like pensions that are a huge expense that the automakers promised way back in the day not thinking that people would live longer or suspecting that it would eat up so much revenue.

That, and they seem to make bulky gas guzzling cars that are going out of fashion and have a reputation for making ugly sedans of low quality.
Most of the so-called import cars are actually assembled in the good ol' USA so I believe health care costs are not a valid scapegoat.  The legacy costs though are quite high.  If memory is correct GM has over 500,000 retirees and currently has fewer than 100,000 workers.  Would imagine that Ford and Chysler have somewhat similar ratio numbers.  At the same time the costs the Big 3 have when they have the temporary layoffs have to be far greater than those of the other car manufacturers in the USA.   
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

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Re: Election 2008

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:14 am

jlbomega wrote: I am not "anti union" however I do believe unions should take responsibility for their part in causing their companies to go belly up.  Auto, Airline, Schools (teachers unions), and to hit close to home the trucking industry unions make their companies increasingly uncompetitive.  YRC is on the verge of bankruptcy because they cannot compete with FedEx and UPS. 
UPS is a union company, given that a friend of mine is a retired Teamster who worked for UPS.

UPS and FedEx are direct competitors, YRC is quite different than them (when have you seen a YRC truck deliver to your house?).
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

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Re: Election 2008

Post by LenexatoKCMO » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:00 am

aknowledgeableperson wrote: Most of the so-called import cars are actually assembled in the good ol' USA so I believe health care costs are not a valid scapegoat. 
Not "most" - for the most part they only manufacture the north america-only products here - minivans, trucks, SUVs, old-fogey sedans.  Everything else still comes on the boat. 

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