KC CityState

Come here to talk about topics that are not related to development, or even Kansas City.
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ToDactivist
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KC CityState

Post by ToDactivist » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:21 pm

Ok been thinking about this and as a quasi-outsider, this is my opinion on getting past the barriers perceived in the way. And thru a few leaks to others in place) testing this theory, no one has yet to throw up a credible barrier other than the unfortunately ubiquitous "show me" pukeage. An artilce caught my eye years ago suggesting several US cities could benefit from this already well-tried notion.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin ... 1566f37a20

So why not KC? Succeed not from the union but from both KS and MO as the prime mover in both states yet anchored down by both and the constant tax revenue robbing, pillaging, etc that continues from both pouching each others' businesses and residents. Creating one citystate with a large enough buffer and preferably growth limits should deter ongoing settlement outside the limits while encouraging (sic offsetting incentives) in the core. Think bigger, faster and be bold.

Punch holes in this.

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Re: KC CityState

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:51 pm

Keep dreaming baby. Keep dreaming. Neither state would let it happen.

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Re: KC CityState

Post by ToDactivist » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:02 pm

Of course they dont want it to happen. its the golden goose. but can they prevent it? Totally out of my legal league here. is it a vote? is it a coup? is it a midnight move out? See California's efforts.

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Re: KC CityState

Post by Highlander » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:31 am

ToDactivist wrote:Of course they dont want it to happen. its the golden goose. but can they prevent it? Totally out of my legal league here. is it a vote? is it a coup? is it a midnight move out? See California's efforts.
What's happening in California will be interesting. The last time part of a state seceded from its parent state was West Virginia choosing to stay in the union and leaving Virginia in 1861. And it remain separated after the war. California looks like it could be dead serious about splitting which could have repercussions across the country both in terms of being a catalyst for other separations but also in terms of representation in the US government. Do each of these new mini states (the new California states would actually be quite large in population) get two new senators? That would distribute the balance of power in the US. Would a KC city state get 2 new senators? California splitting would probably create a republican effort to split Texas up for the same reason - increase republican party senate presence to keep pace with democrats gaining from California breaking up. I think it would become the biggest power struggle in the US since the civil war.


Even if it was both possible and likely, KC would be foolish to do this without Johnson County coming along to provide the wealth to offset the poverty in Jackson and Wyandotte Counties - and I suspect Johnson County isn't going to want to do this.
Last edited by Highlander on Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KC CityState

Post by FangKC » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:07 pm

You need the legislatures of both Kansas and Missouri to approve this, and they won't. Loss of state revenue alone would stop it -- especially in Kansas since the Kansas suburbs pay for much of state government. Then, even if MO/KS approve, for the KC Metro to become a city-state, you would need the US Congress to also approve it. Look how long the issue of Washington DC becoming a state has languished.

Metro areas tend to be more liberal, so conservative politicians would be concerned about approving city-states that add two more liberal senators to the Senate, and more liberal members to the House. Remember, each state gets at least one House member regardless of the population.

For practical purposes, it would be more efficient for some states to merge with a neighboring state--like North and South Dakota; Montana and Wyoming; Kansas and Nebraska; Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire; Connecticut and Rhode Island; and Delaware and Maryland; since one or both of the states have a low populations--often less than many major cities. For low population states like Kansas (2,893,957), Nebraska (1.9 million), North Dakota (755,393), South Dakota (869,666), Montana (1,015,165) and Wyoming (579,315), it would be cheaper to combine state operations with another state. Having one state capital instead of two would cut administrative and building costs (including state prisons). Running one combined Medicaid program would be cheaper (usually the top state expense). It's not going to happen though, because no state is giving up their two senators and one house member.

The only way I see the city-state idea happening in the USA is if there is some event that causes the country to break up, and areas realign under different boundaries completely, and what we know as the USA ceases to exist. New York, California, and Texas could easily operate as their own countries, since they have huge economies. That is assuming that old state boundaries would even exist under new national governments. California and Texas have bigger economies than Russia for example.

I have always wondered what would happen if one state had a severe depopulation. For example, if North Dakota's population dropped to 1,000 people statewide. Would the national government allow a state to have three national representatives (2 Senate, 1 house) to represent 1,000 people? Would the national government demand the state combine with a neighboring state?
Last edited by FangKC on Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: KC CityState

Post by ToDactivist » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:52 pm

Great comments. Odd that a departure requires a vote. Hardly a coup. So thinking smaller, I wonder why rural depopulating counties don't merge. Same argument on representation and turf wars I guess. change is a constant though

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Re: KC CityState

Post by FangKC » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:47 pm

Many counties do need to merge in both Kansas and Missouri. The county I grew up in has seen its' population drop to around 4,400 people. The population in 1900 was 17,083.

There are schools that are merging with other districts located across the county line, or sharing sports programs with them because they don't have enough kids to form a team to compete.

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Re: KC CityState

Post by tower » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:16 pm

States should have been designed to be more fluid, at least in the west. Most western states were laid out before anyone really even lived there. Unfortunately, for most of the history of the US, statehood was politicized because of slavery. Changing the makeup and location of states would be difficult now, but should be done.

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Re: KC CityState

Post by bobbyhawks » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:40 pm

State fluidity would be a huge problem for the US. Majority political vote-getters and parties in any state could gerrymander state divisions to increase the senate representation for their party, which would be a race to segment the country unnaturally (which is essentially what is being proposed in California). Micro-states could start to pop-up to get two senators and a single House Rep. well-under the 700k population average, thus increasing the overall representation in both House and Senate. It would be a race to the bottom. IMO, states should remain the same, and the only new considerations should be to make DC, Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. states.

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Re: KC CityState

Post by flyingember » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:37 am

FangKC wrote:Many counties do need to merge in both Kansas and Missouri. The county I grew up in has seen its' population drop to around 4,400 people. The population in 1900 was 17,083.

There are schools that are merging with other districts located across the county line, or sharing sports programs with them because they don't have enough kids to form a team to compete.
There was a piece somewhere that said in most of Kansas local government is the major employer to the point there's an excess of local government.

Too many fire districts, counties, school districts, etc.

It's one of the interesting disparities politically because voting for a Republican style of smaller government is voting against jobs and the life of the town.

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