What do you hate about current home and building design practices?

[chingon]

If you don't understand the quantitative (to say nothing about qualitative) difference between occasionally congregating on somebody's back deck, versus having literally daily, casual, passing interaction with the majority of your immediate neighbors then I don't think I could explain it to you. I certainly wouldn't try to convince you. Clearly most people would prefer your house to mine, nota, so perhaps you can feel secure in the idea that you are part of an overwhelming majority, and I am a weirdo.

[FangKC]

I've lived in suburban homes with no porches and the patios in the back.  My experience was that few people interacted.  I lived in these houses and never knew any neighbors except the ones I shared a back yard (over the fence).

Nota, you are fortunate to live in such a wonderful neighborhood, because that's not the experience a lot of people have.

The best living experience I had was living in an older house off-campus in Columbia, Missouri. It had a big front porch about six feet back from the sidewalk, and my room-mates and I sat out there all the time when it was warm enough.  We knew all our neighbors (mostly old people and families).  When we hosted parties, it was the gathering spot.

My mother almost always ended up having a conversation with someone when she was out watering the plants on her front porch. Anyone who passed by stopped and visited, and people driving by always honked at her and waved.  When they moved to a smaller retirement ranch-style house. She did say she missed her porch terribly.  She had both a porch and a deck at the old house, and only a back deck at the new house.

My grandma had a really small house, and spent a lot of time sitting on her front porch. Usually I found her snapping peas or green beans into her apron.  People walked by and chatted with her all day long. She knew everyone in town, and her porch was her information-gathering post.  When it got dark and the mosquitoes got to her, she'd go in and phone her shut-in pals, and relay the day's socializing harvest with them. She was generous in that respect.     If a small child walked by, she almost always greeted them and asked them if they were hot or needed a cool drink.  Many of my childhood neighbor ladies did the same for me.

I guess what I'm saying is why not have both? The porch on the front and a patio/deck in the back.

My sister lives in Lenexa in a neighborhood right off Lackman, and she craves a front porch like we had as kids.  She feels bad for her daughter--not having that experience.   She only knows the neighbors who have kids her daughter plays with.  She's lived there for 15 years.  One of the problems is that the neighbors come and go a lot.

It's different than when we were kids, and children found each other spontaneously.  The practice there in Lenexa is to schedule appointments to play.  The kids are too busy to gather organically and randomly like we did.  I guess it is sort of a faux pas to be a kid and just show up at a friend's house unscheduled.  My niece can't play when she wants to, but only when someone is available at a given time.  Sounds a bit Orwellian to me.  

I can't remember ever scheduling a play-date with any of my neighborhood pals.  If I was on the front porch, they'd find me, or I'd get on my bike and ride around until I found someone.  The only thing close to an appointment was a sleep-over, and then it was usually the same day, and impromptu, "Mom, can I stay all night at ...."

My sister has said that she rarely sees anyone on the front street. They drive into their garages and close the door.  The only time is when they get the mail, and some of them drive up to their box first before pulling into the drive.

My brother lives in the Northland off Barry Road in The Coves.  He said that since he's moved there (a year ago) that he's had a real trouble getting to know the neighbors.  He grew up in a small town, and has lived in a small town of about 900 people for most of his life until now.  He says people are a bit stand-offish.  He's 48, and he doesn't quite know how to make friends here in Kansas City.   He drives up to our hometown every chance he gets to socialize because of this dilemma.

I've lived on Quality Hill for six years and I don't know by neighbors by name.  I always speak when I see ANYONE outside or in the hall, but people just aren't very chatty most of the time.  I have no  problem out in the City chatting people up though. People here are mostly friendly anywhere you go.  I just can't figure out why neighbors are so guarded.

[Angel]

I live in the suburbiest of the suburbs right now and have been in this house for 6 years.  I see my neighbors about once a week.  We wave at each other as we're coming or going.  I know their names, but that's about it.  I see the same people daily on walks or when they walk past my house with their dogs/kids.  And still we just wave or smile...sometimes a "Hi."  I grew up in suburbs and lived in suburbs for most of my life (except college). 

When I was a kid, we interacted with our neighbors a lot more.  But we lived in an older section of Olathe and had the same people living around us forever.  I think it helps when people stay in one spot.  But in a neighborhood like the one I'm in now, you never know when your neighbors are going to move.  People transfer in and out all the time.  The house across the street from mine, in the 6 years I've been here, has been bought and sold 3 times. 

Every newer neighborhood I've lived in since I got out of college has been this way.  I never know who I live next door to.  There has been exactly one neighbor I had who I actually got to know and we hung out together regulary...even remaining friends long after we both moved away.  I wish there were more (suburb) neighborhoods where people gathered and hung out regularly.  But I think those places are few and far between. 

[Roanoker]

Maybe I'm wrong (many people think I am most of the time), but perhaps one big reason why neighbors do not interact as much as they once did is that both spouses/parents work outside of the home more. The women's movement of the 70s demanded that women have the choice of working either inside the home or outside. Not that it matters, but my choice would have been to stay home. Didn't happen.

Plus, human interactivity has changed, and not all for the worse. Oddly, I have more "contact" with people via email and this forum than I do with physical neighbors. Also, people typically interact all day long at work, and they need time away from people. I do. Being married or not--and having children or not--enter into the mix as well.

[FangKC]

Roanoker is wise and on target.

[aknowledgeableperson]

My beef in the modern housing market is that developers use the same set of floor plans for every house in a developement. this to me is taking the individuality out of a neighborhood. I would like to see developers mix it up a bit by mixing Ranch with modern, with victorian, with cottage Etc. This is what makes a neighborhood look good. not all one cookie cutter style.

One of the4 prized "urban neighborhoods" in KC is along Ward Parkway and east to Wornall and around Gregory.  Almost all of the houses there are built with the same floorplan.  What makes them different is how the houses look from the street - different front elevations.

I have seen many, many new developments and have yet to see a development with only one or two floor plans.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Maybe I'm wrong (many people think I am most of the time), but perhaps one big reason why neighbors do not interact as much as they once did is that both spouses/parents work outside of the home more. The women's movement of the 70s demanded that women have the choice of working either inside the home or outside. Not that it matters, but my choice would have been to stay home. Didn't happen.

Plus, human interactivity has changed, and not all for the worse. Oddly, I have more "contact" with people via email and this forum than I do with physical neighbors. Also, people typically interact all day long at work, and they need time away from people. I do. Being married or not--and having children or not--enter into the mix as well.

Agree and disagree with you but I think that there are many reasons for the lack of interaction, and none of the reasons have to do with how the houses are being built.
Why did people interact more in the past.  During the summertimes people went outdoors to escape the heat of the house - no air conditioning.  Also with a limited selection of TV programs people didn't stay inside to watch whatever during the summertime.  Yes, there were more stay-at-home moms who did the grocery shopping and had dinner ready when dad came home and took care of the kids and let them play outside with their friends.  Those stay-at-home moms would talk to neighbors when the kids where outside.  And there are many more changes that have occurred that lessens the interaction between neighbors.
But in neighborhoods with strong home associations that have sponsored functions you will have a high degree of interactions, even with McMansions.

Neighbors and neighborhoods have not changed because of the style of homes built.  They have changed because our culture has changed.

[Highlander]

Maybe I'm wrong (many people think I am most of the time), but perhaps one big reason why neighbors do not interact as much as they once did is that both spouses/parents work outside of the home more. The women's movement of the 70s demanded that women have the choice of working either inside the home or outside. Not that it matters, but my choice would have been to stay home. Didn't happen.

Plus, human interactivity has changed, and not all for the worse. Oddly, I have more "contact" with people via email and this forum than I do with physical neighbors. Also, people typically interact all day long at work, and they need time away from people. I do. Being married or not--and having children or not--enter into the mix as well.

My best friends in life are those I grew up with in the 60's and 70's, people who lived on the same block we did....we knew everyone, followed by grad school buddies and work colleagues.  In suburban neighborhoods I have lived in as an adult, I've known the neighbors 2-3 houses deep on either side and then a few more up and down the street.  In the urban neighborhoods I have lived in as an adult, I have gotten to know practically nobody.  You are right about communication issues but having a yard and children (especially children) increases the chances of getting to know the neighbors much more than most here might expect. 

[Greyscale]

One of the things that drives me crazy about American cities is that builders/developers/city councils appear to have no sense of how buildings fit together to form a coherent whole. Most US cities are a jumbled mess of buildings, each seemingly the result of pure, unregulated self-interest, with no overarching body around to make sure it fits into, enriches and complements the urban fabric as a whole.

Kansas City is particularly bad at this. For example, the principle of line of sight is ignored throughout nearly the entire city, with only The Plaza showing displaying any sort of awareness of it. Leave The Plaza and things immediately devolve into chaos. Take the western terminus of Armour Blvd. That huge, fantastic, columned building (can't recall what's inside of it right now) should have its entrance smack at the end of Armour, not 50 feet south of the intersection. What genius decided that we were better off seeing the corner and north wing from Armour, rather than the symmetrical dignity of the main entrance flanked by both wings? Is it really that difficult to do? Apparently so in KC, because instead of a unified urban space, we get a bunch of buildings just lying around higgledy-piggledy, making us look all the more like the bunch of clueless hicks the coasts already think we are. Idiotic.

Car culture -- or perhaps "anti-pedestrian" culture is a better term -- is my other pet peeve. I agree with Fang that the suburbs have no qualms about disregarding pedestrians completely. That's fine with me; that's part of what the suburbs are about. But outside of The Plaza, KCMO is barely any better, in fact, I dare say that, despite being clearly spacially discouraged there, the role of pedestrian might actually be more enjoyable in the suburbs than in the core. The fact of the matter is that the lifestyle in the core is only marginally more urban than anywhere else in the metro, because virtually nothing is within walking distance of people's homes -- and even if a few places are, the street life is still so insipid, and the built environment so poor, that most people simply end up leading the same "Pod" lifestyle as suburbanites: home pod, work pod, store pod, restaurant pod, all connected via the car pod. This drives me nuts, especially when I think of what KC used to be.

[FangKC]

One cannot discount the impact of the internet on interaction either.

The building you are referring to is the Kansas City Life Insurance Building.  The reason it was placed off center is because it was built after the roads were built, and there used to be houses along Broadway. The company bought several houses and demolished them to clear the site.

The lot at the west end of Armour had a rather grand mansion that sat in the sight-line of Armour, and it was there long after the KC Life Building was constructed.  However, eventually, KC Life bought it as well and leveled it to building their computer center buildings.

[nota]

If you don't understand the quantitative (to say nothing about qualitative) difference between occasionally congregating on somebody's back deck, versus having literally daily, casual, passing interaction with the majority of your immediate neighbors then I don't think I could explain it to you. I certainly wouldn't try to convince you. Clearly most people would prefer your house to mine, nota, so perhaps you can feel secure in the idea that you are part of an overwhelming majority, and I am a weirdo.

Again, you are ASSuming thngs that aren't fact. Nothing I can do to change your prejudice. Nor do I care. I promise not to make assumptions about your lifestyle if you will refrain from making them about mine.

I visit with my neighbors-many many many of them daily. Sometimes more often. So do many of my neighbors.

I really don't give a hoot which lifestyle anyone prefers. I just am tired of stereotypes made by people who are obviously prejudiced and has little or no adult experience living another lifestyle. I can see value in both. Depends on the person.

[nota]

yes.  i grew up in the burbs, as did all my friends.  from my experience, and what i've been told, neighborhood interaction is incredibly minimal.  my parents have lived in the same house for 27 years and they MIGHT know the names of 4 neighbors, and they never hang out.  same with my brother and his wife in Chesterfield, same with all my friends' families from suburban KC, STL, CHI, etc. 

Yep, that can happen anywhere. It depends on the person. We have those people in our neighborhood too. I've lived here almost 10 years and probably have had 5 conversations with my next door neighbor on the north. They are very nice people-just don't interact.

Unless one has adult experience living in a neighborhood, I don't think anyone has a whole lot of REAL experience in a 'burb setting. Meaning you don't know how it would be for you. In every suburban neighborhood we have ever lived in, it has been this way for us. It has always been friendly, fun, and communicative. We enjoy each other. We support each other. We care when little Katie down the street lost her first tooth. We care when Courtney makes the school play. We love it when Steve gets his first Corvette. They love us as well and show it daily. But one has to be open and willing to have it be that way. Those who live somewhere and don't interact have only themselves to blame. It isn't the neighborhood or where it is. It isn't the house, etc. It's the people in it. One can point a finger at their neighborhood and say "it's just not friendly" but in reality, it probably is them who is holding back and not being friendly, not the neighborhood.

of course it happens, however...i will say that since i've lived in West Plaza we've had neighbors from 4 different houses come up and introduce themselves out of nowhere - and we're just lowly renters.  i never got that in the loft bldg i lived in.  i don't think it's an "urban v. suburban" phenomena so much as a 'hood by 'hood phenomena. 

I'm surprised you have only had 4. And did you continue any kind of relationship? Or was it just that one time?

I disagree about the "hood by hood phenomena"-its the people, not the neighborhood. Homeless folks probably have the same thing in their neighborhoods. Some are friendly, some are not.

[FangKC]

Let's not argue.  Nota, you appear to be a very friendly person, and seem to easily attract friends in your neighborhood.  I think it's true that having children helps people socialize in general in their neighborhood.  It gives people an instant common denominator. 

Let's return to the topic of things we don't like about building practices, in hopes that developers will hear us and make improvements from which we can all benefit.  That's my intent.

I agree with you that there are many positive benefits to new housing, and I've mentioned on this forum several times the problems of older, obsolete buildings in old KC neighborhoods.  I don't think they need to be torn down, but renovated, and duplexes and apartments combined to make larger spaces.  Many old houses don't have the storage or closet space because they were designed when people had much less, and used armoires instead of built closets.  Rooms were often small, but in some cases--like Victorian houses, rooms were very large with high ceilings.  Perhaps too high since many renovators ended up dropping the ceilings to conserve energy.

[Roanoker]

I agree with you that there are many positive benefits to new housing, and I've mentioned on this forum several times the problems of older, obsolete buildings in old KC neighborhoods.  I don't think they need to be torn down, but renovated, and duplexes and apartments combined to make larger spaces.   Many old houses don't have the storage or closet space because they were designed when people had much less, and used armoires instead of built closets.  Rooms were often small, but in some cases--like Victorian houses, rooms were very large with high ceilings.  Perhaps too high since many renovators ended up dropping the ceilings to conserve energy.

You might want to check pictures of houses posted in another thread, at http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php/topic, ... #msg232613

[anniewarbucks]

At least there is some individuality in this neighborhood And it is relitively new.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I know many people who post here hate dead-end streets or cul-de-sacs but I for one like them or streets that have give the same type of effect.  Why do I like them?  Because they tend to decrease the amount of thru traffic and in a way creates more of a neighborhood.  After living on a dead-end street for many years the experience my family had was great.  Maybe the neighbors we had made the big difference but with a lot less traffic the kids were able to use the street as a playground.  Parents congregated outside to watch the kids play and to talk with each other an share drinks.  When a strange car would accidently drive onto the street we would watch it until it left.

Design neighborhoods with one or two main through streets but have the other streets feed into these main streets.

[KC0KEK]

There is something very hostile about coming up upon a house that is all garage frontage.  Does anyone else have that sort of feeling?

I don't. I also don't get that feeling when I'm walking in New York or Chicago and see an entry/exit for one their gazillion underground parking garages.

[nota]

Maybe I'm wrong (many people think I am most of the time), but perhaps one big reason why neighbors do not interact as much as they once did is that both spouses/parents work outside of the home more. The women's movement of the 70s demanded that women have the choice of working either inside the home or outside. Not that it matters, but my choice would have been to stay home. Didn't happen.

Plus, human interactivity has changed, and not all for the worse. Oddly, I have more "contact" with people via email and this forum than I do with physical neighbors. Also, people typically interact all day long at work, and they need time away from people. I do. Being married or not--and having children or not--enter into the mix as well.

Me too. And I don't work outside the home. Only volunteer work. A nightly gathering on my front porch would be way too much for me these days. But the quick visit at the mailbox or in the driveway or in the back yard as you are mowing is great. The kids who stop to see my husband because he has an air compressor and lots of tools to fix bikes is great.

We save the larger "gatherings" for the weekends. In fact, we are planning a neighborhood "Bloody Mary" morning in a couple of weeks.

[nota]

Neighbors and neighborhoods have not changed because of the style of homes built.  They have changed because our culture has changed.

Damn but you are pretty darn smart for an old guy!

[anniewarbucks]

I know many people who post here hate dead-end streets or cul-de-sacs but I for one like them or streets that have give the same type of effect.  Why do I like them?  Because they tend to decrease the amount of thru traffic and in a way creates more of a neighborhood.  After living on a dead-end street for many years the experience my family had was great.  Maybe the neighbors we had made the big difference but with a lot less traffic the kids were able to use the street as a playground.  Parents congregated outside to watch the kids play and to talk with each other an share drinks.  When a strange car would accidently drive onto the street we would watch it until it left.

Design neighborhoods with one or two main through streets but have the other streets feed into these main streets.

Not me. I do not like the one way in one way out way of thinking.