Land under Southwest Trafficway

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advocrat
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Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by advocrat »

Is there any potential use for the mudflats under Southwest Trafficway?

I've seen development and use of sorts under freeways in other cities. At the very least it looks like it could be used for surface lots. There is such a lot on Southwest Blvd. But, I would like to see something more structural and useful in the otherwise unused area going up the grade to the North under SW trafficway.
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by DaveKCMO »

you could easily get two levels of parking in that particular area. further north, there's room for one level of surface parking. the exit ramps also need serious rethinking, as do the connections between crossroads and westside (23rd, 20th, 17th are the only streets that connect to crossroads, while summit connects the loop).

if i'm not mistaken, the entire elevated section is beyond it's original life span and needs replacing. would be interesting if someone has a plan for fixing the wrongs when it gets redone.
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by FangKC »

Yes, with some planning, the space of the SW Trafficway and Broadway bridges would be perfect innovative locations for parking garages to service new buildings built near them.  The space in the underpasses to the Westside could be converted into gallery space as well.

In NYC, there is a wonderful grocery store and restaurant built under the base moorings of the Queensborough Bridge called Bridgemarket.  There are great vaulted ceilings under the bridge in both the restaurant and grocery market spaces.  It is one of the great spaces in all of Manhattan and it used to be vacant.

The old space:

http://www.metropolismag.com/html/conte ... sir/10.htm

http://www.metropolismag.com/html/conte ... sir/11.htm

The new space:

The Food Emporium at Bridgemarket

Image

http://www.thefoodemporium.com/finefood ... ve_map.asp

http://www.architectureweek.com/2000/0517/news_3-1.html

http://www.h3hc.com/projects.asp?submen ... idgemarket

http://www.guastavinos.com/photos.html

http://www.guastavinos.com/images/galle ... -4817.html

http://www.guastavinos.com/images/galle ... -4976.html

http://www.guastavinos.com/images/galle ... -7337.html

http://www.metropolismag.com/html/conte ... /sir/1.htm

http://www.metropolismag.com/html/conte ... /sir/5.htm

I wish they would do something with the space under Bartle Hall at 14th and Broadway.  It could be enclosed and used for something.
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by Highlander »

Strouds!
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by cdm2p »

the support structures need to be accessible for maintenance.
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by FangKC »

There is a lot of room under there for parking.  It's an uptapped resource. Some larger buildings could be built across the street and use that area for support parking.
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by cdm2p »

I'm new to this site but I can tell that Fang is fascinated with parking.
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FangKC
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by FangKC »

So many problems with redeveloping downtown stem from developers' argument about no dedicated parking for their buildings.

I'm for utilizing existing wasted space instead of tearing down buildings to create surface parking.  Thus my advocacy for parking under covered bridge decks.  Besides, isn't it already a form of covered parking?  Since it already exists, it just seems wise to place buildings requiring parking spaces near these underpasses instead of tearing down other buildings or building parking garages to create it.

It also makes sense to me to place parking garages on decks over freeway canyons that circle downtown.  It solves two problems: creates parking and removes a physical barrier in the neighborhood.

It may seem radical to some, but I also think in the long-run it is wise to create below grade parking under city streets downtown.  If you took a wide-street like Grand and put two levels of parking under the street deck, you would have a garage that could stretch several blocks. It could provide centralized parking right in the middle of downtown for several buildings.  It would also mean that private land wouldn't have to be bought or taken to build garages.

That would remedy the need to tear down buildings to construct above-grade garages.  It would lessen the problem of large garages creating dead blocks with little street activity, and the need for so many surface lots. It would also have provided some parking for small buildings that don't have access to garages.

It would have provided infill development opportunities for many lots used for parking between existing buildings, where a former building had been demolished.  That removes the gapped tooth appearance of many city blocks.

I think the City should have taken the opportunity to do this from 12th St. to Truman Road while P&L and Sprint Center were being built.  I also think the City should have done the same under Oak, McGee, Walnut, Main and Baltimore.  The area was already torn up and blocked off to traffic at times.

This would have provided infastructure for parking without loss of usable land, and created a public asset that would have reduced developers' argument about lack of parking near any building they want to build.

Take a building like 1006 Grand that is having problems being redeveloped simply because there is no dedicated parking nearby.  If there were 2 levels of parking under Grand between 9th and 11th, they would be parking for that building.  The same would have been true for the Professional and Law buildings.

I still don't understand why the City didn't build some below-grade parking under part of the Spring Center blocks--especially under the basketball musuem portion.
Last edited by FangKC on Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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advocrat
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by advocrat »

Fang,

Your arguments seem logical and sound to me.
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by K.C.Highrise »

How about reduce the need for parking?
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by FangKC »

One of the unique things about Seattle is the use of tunnels under the streets downtown for the electric buses and light-rail.   The tunnels were already there from the time when the streets were raised after the Great Seattle fire.  When Underground Seattle was created. It was mostly to solve plumbing and drainage problems at the time.  The streets were raised and the second and third stories of many buildings became the new, first story.  The street deck is the roof of these tunnels.

Later, when mass transit became more of a problem, the City solved it by putting the electric buses in the tunnels under some streets.   This solved the problem of city buses slowing downtown traffic by stopping and starting, creating choke-points, and being slowed down by street light stops.  Access stairs and stations were constructed much like subways. The buses could operate outside the tunnels as well, and on diesel or electricity.   Bus rides through the tunnels are in a ride-free zone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Bus_Tunnel

http://www.seattletunnel.org/

http://www.answers.com/topic/seattle-underground

http://www.undergroundtour.com/

http://www.seattleattractions.com/underground.html

Many of New York City's subterranean subways were created in a similar way.  The roof of the tunnel is the street deck.  In some stations, you can see through grates up to the street level, and on sidewalks you can look down and see the lights of the subway below.

Park Avenue sits over the Grand Central rail lines.  Many of the buildings lining Park Avenue are built on stilts over the rails.
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by peterbillionaire »

advocrat wrote: Is there any potential use for the mudflats under Southwest Trafficway?

...the otherwise unused area going up the grade to the North under SW trafficway.
I don't understand -- where is SW Trafficway elevated?
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by scooterj »

peterbillionaire wrote: I don't understand -- where is SW Trafficway elevated?
Don't worry, you're not alone in having no idea what this thread is talking about.

The only spot I can find is a tiny sliver of the southbound ramp off I-35, in the median of I-35, just south of 27th Street.
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by anniewarbucks »

Thats what I found on Google Earth also. This area is pretty much developed with I35 being the major highway traveling through it. which would make it practicaly inaccessable.
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advocrat
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by advocrat »

Drive southwest on SW Blvd to the intersection of 23rd (just east of Jefferson) and look to your right, up the hill to the north under the bridge (Southwest Trafficway.)
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by GRID »

Technically, the entire stretch of elevated bridges from the SW corner of the loop all the way to the plaza is SW Trafficway.  SW Tfwy was there before I-35 was built.  They just took pieces of the local expressway system and attached the interstate system to them.

Before the Interstate, we had the SW Trafficway, Lewis and Clark Expressway, Crosstown Freeway and Paseo.

Funny, thing is, all of those original structures are still in place.
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by scooterj »

Let's just call it I-35 then for those of us born after the 1950s.  :)
Last edited by scooterj on Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land under Southwest Trafficway

Post by anniewarbucks »

Yea It is confusing for those that do not know that the I35 bridges were once Southwest Trafficway. The question is this, Is there enough heighth to build anything under them? If so It would be nice to build some nice 1 story homes using the bridge as the roof tops or even place businesses under them and do the same. Using the large I beems under the concrete they could attach the businesses drop ceiling and cooling ducts. Care would have to be taken to affix drain pipes to the under side of any expansion joints or seams in the concrete. Also the gutters would need to be changed a little to direct water away from the structure.
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