Why Commercial Construction Costs More

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KCTigerFan
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Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by KCTigerFan »

A nice little simple primer on why commercial construction costs more than residential.  This is specifically geared to the University environment, but a lot of it fits general questions too. 

http://www.cf.missouri.edu/pdc/yhoc2.htm
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HalcyonKC
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by HalcyonKC »

In my mind this is (generally) another benefit to living in a loft--you're moving into a commercial structure which was originally built to withstand a much higher level of use and abuse than a stick-built tract home.  Who wants a 30 year mortgage on a 'twenty year structure'?
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by KC0KEK »

That's great -- but commercial properties can be poorly built, too. Examples include the Amoco building in Chicago, which had to have its entire facade replaced, and that office building on the north side of the loop here. There's a thread someplace about it.
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HalcyonKC
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by HalcyonKC »

KC0KEK wrote: That's great -- but commercial properties can be poorly built, too. Examples include the Amoco building in Chicago, which had to have its entire facade replaced, and that office building on the north side of the loop here. There's a thread someplace about it.
Definitely agree, that's why I put the "generally" in there.  Not only that, but a loft conversion of an originally solid building can be done cheaply and leave residents with thin walls and other nuisances. 

Actually I think it would be very cool if there were even such a thing as a tract-built legacy home.  Someplace where you could stand at the window munching on potato chips while a tornado blew through the yard, nonchalantly musing to yourself about nature's fury.

I think you're talking about the "flash cube" building they are going to tear down?  I drive by that daily and watch the progress on the garage they are taking down next to it.  I'm not sure when they'll start on the main building but from what people have said it's probably no great loss.  Although "The Flash Cube Lofts" would have had sort of a ring to it. 
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by KC0KEK »

LOL. The flash cube. That's the one. Good name for it.
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by anniewarbucks »

Flash Cube lol do they still make those things? On a serious note with the spirit of the thread. The commercial buildings are built with constant use in mind. These buildings are also designed with the handicapped in mind. In all seriousness the family home should include some of the same features (ramps, whealchair lifts, sprinkler systems) of a commercial buildings. We look at these things when we are healthy and say we will never use this. We have an event in our lives that renders part of our body useless and our home is a virtual obstacle course that costs more to adapt than to rebuild. 
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by FangKC »

I agree that all modern homes should include features to accommodate the elderly and disabled.  I recall reading that one-in-four Americans will suffer some form of disability or physical infirmity in their lives. This should include wider doors and hallways as well, and more electrical outlets. I think we should move away from single outlets placed randomly on walls and go to electrical strips that run along baseboards and allow one to plug in appliances anywhere and in whatever quantity one wants instead of having to buy extension cords.

We should also be at the point in techology where old types of wiring are obsolete in remodels. One should have to tear out a wall, or wind new wires from the attic to replace old ones.  There should be some type of wireless system used. 

Electrical cords should also be on spools so you only have to pull out enough to plug in appliances instead of having them snaking around floorboards or hanging down against walls.  The area under my computer desk is like some kind of snake pit.

Image

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Last edited by FangKC on Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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FangKC
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by FangKC »

Image

Image

I would also like a system where you could add an outlet wherever one wanted by pulling off the cover and popping in another outlet face, or simply slide the outlet on the track to wherever it's needed. Then one doesn't have to run extension cords all over the place.
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by LindseyLohan »

FangKC wrote: Image

Image

I would also like a system where you could add an outlet wherever one wanted by pulling off the cover and popping in another outlet face, or simply slide the outlet on the track to wherever it's needed. Then one doesn't have to run extension cords all over the place.
There isn't a way to do this without every idiot at risk of shocking themselves.
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

FangKC wrote:
We should also be at the point in techology where old types of wiring are obsolete in remodels. One should have to tear out a wall, or wind new wires from the attic to replace old ones.  There should be some type of wireless system used. 
Electricity usually travels via wires.  So how can you have a wireless electical system?
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by mean »

We are supposed to start seeing products utilizing this technology any day now...

http://www.powercastco.com/
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nota
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by nota »

The power comanies are also working on making things like phone and cable service run through the power lines.
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by advocrat »

Nota's original message is well founded.  But another important truth is "you get what you pay for." From crappy gas stations, to cheap apratments or offices, commercial retail, etc., you can make direct comparisons to (new) homes built with the cheapest materials, crappy construction, corners cut on roofs, finishing or hardware, and foundations. Sure homes aren't designed to have heavy traffic and abuse, and that's exactly the point, there is no industrual level traffic, but if the expected/desired level of quality is built a home will easily last 130 years or more.  What you pay is another issue and if you buy without knowing what you're buying, you can easily pay more for less. 

The ugly issue is another discussion all together, and the thread on this topic last year was among the most humorous ever (snout-houses, etc.) Among the ugliest and nicest neighborhoods in the metro have the same basic name, "Berkshire."  The nice one is down off of Roe near 122 street, the ugly one is in southeast Belton.
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by nota »

You must keep in mind that the building codes are also different for commercial buildings than for residential.
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by chrizow »

somewhat off-topic, but:

i don't understand why "modern" (the sort you see in, say, Dwell magazine) home construction costs so much.  in essence, what seems to be pretty simple - for example a rectangular home with large windows, concrete floors, etc - costs like $250-300 a sq ft to build.  the pre-fab "Dwell Home" which the magazine sells is over $200/ft plus land costs.  it seems like it would actually be CHEAPER to build these homes than the typical "nice" suburban 2-story with all kinds of different elevations, tons of different materials, etc...

http://www.thedwellhome.com/
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

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Image

That is one ugly house
nota
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by nota »

chrizow wrote: somewhat off-topic, but:

i don't understand why "modern" (the sort you see in, say, Dwell magazine) home construction costs so much.  in essence, what seems to be pretty simple - for example a rectangular home with large windows, concrete floors, etc - costs like $250-300 a sq ft to build.  the pre-fab "Dwell Home" which the magazine sells is over $200/ft plus land costs.  it seems like it would actually be CHEAPER to build these homes than the typical "nice" suburban 2-story with all kinds of different elevations, tons of different materials, etc...

http://www.thedwellhome.com/
Let's see just a few.

*According to their website-each home is custom designed by an architect for the particular site. Many ordinary homes are built from plans that are used many times and are available at a bulk price. You as a "professional" wouldn't want to give your legal expertise away-after all, it is your living-just as it is for the architect. And probably you would pay more for the lot as well. Those houses couldn't go just anywhere. Lots 100 x 150 in my subdivision sold for $40k to $70k or so. Cheap for a lot by today's standard.

*When an architect is designing something, he/she seldom chooses any ordinary building materials. That's part of why you like these houses.

*Chances are, you will pay for the architect's services from the time he picks up the "pencil" until you are satisfied with your house. He will be on the job often and making sure his plans are followed to the letter. That also costs money.

*"Green" building materials cost more in most cases.

*In the picture, I saw no "standard" building materials. Regular windows, doors, etc come in "standard" sizes and homes are built to the standards in many cases.

*Most architects don't choose any subcontractors that come along. They prefer to use their own subs because they can be assured of the value of their work.

Many more, but you get the idea.

Why do legal services cost so much?
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chrizow
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by chrizow »

nota wrote: Why do legal services cost so much?
not having legal services costs much, much more.  :)
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FangKC
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by FangKC »

Many of what we consider our permanent older housing stock were actually kit houses sold by places like Sears and Montgomery Ward through their catalogs.   Lots of bungalows were kit houses delivered on site and assembled.    I wonder why this practice is less used today.  Those houses weren't as artificial looking as modular homes brought on-site today.

It just seems to me that a kit house would be a cheaper way to go all around. Why don't more developers use them?

I'm creating a new topic on another thread specifically about pre-fab and kit houses.

http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php/topic, ... #msg274005
Last edited by FangKC on Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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anniewarbucks
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Re: Why Commercial Construction Costs More

Post by anniewarbucks »

Because of the poor estimation of supplies needed to build these homes. My great uncle used to build homes here in Topeka. He had to build some for Wheelens and every time that they would send out the kit to build on a site, the y would have to run back to the store and get some more lumkber, Sheetrock,Shingles, etc.but on a non kit the lumber came out to be just right.
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