Another Plaza condo conversion - 4700 Roanoke

[FangKC]

The more redeveloped old buildings that enter the market, the more prices will stay flat or decline on other redeveloped old buildings because there is an oversupply of them.  However, at some point in the future, the prices will go back up when all old buildings that can be renovated into housing are a dwindling resource.  Then, the real estate market for restored landmark buildings will be fixed.  There will be a more limited supply of them downtown.  Condo apts in old buildings should be seen as a long-term investment.

To some extent, it benefits owners of condos in restored buildings when other conversion projects do rental apartments instead of condos.  Adding more condos into older buildings only weakens that market.

[FangKC]

The market for smaller, single-occupancy condos should only grow in Kansas City as the baby boomers begin retiring.  Not all baby boomers are affluent, and not all of them want or desire large sq. footage. Many want to downsize and travel.  They just require a  pied-a-terre.  New York City is full of these types of apartments.

[Maitre D]

The market for smaller, single-occupancy condos should only grow in Kansas City as the baby boomers begin retiring.   Not all baby boomers are affluent, and not all of them want or desire large sq. footage. Many want to downsize and travel.  They just require a  pied-a-terre.  New York City is full of these types of apartments.

Nope.  KC-ian married retirees won't dare buy an 800-sqft place.  They'd strangle each other.  They're used to living in 2000 sqft minimum, and this would be like putting 2 rhino's in a cage together.

[Maitre D]

the x factor is the maintenance and upkeep though - i do not have the time, expertise, or desire to maintain a house, esp. an old one.

You can buy that at your house from the neighbor kids or handymen, at a cost probably less than what the Condo is hitting you up in monthly fees.

I live in a maintenance free area in JoCo, and I pay 100/mo. for it.  Which is a fraction of what the Kirkwood is charging for it:  400/mo.  That's outrageous and wasteful, prob going to the developer's pocket.

[Appraiser]

The prices in Kansas City are reasonable for virtually any dwelling.  This is a 2-bed, one-bath, fixer-upper in Columbus, Ohio, a similarly-sized Midwestern market.  The asking price for this old girl is $380,000.

And we think our property taxes are high: Yearly Taxes: $3,229 for a old, unrenovated house.

http://www2.herrealtors.com/vutech.ruff ... 751&ID=326

That part of Columbus (German Village) is very unique and highly sought after.  Really not a very accurate comparison for values in Kansas City vs Columbus.
For tax rate comparison here is some info for you.
5732 Grand; list price $375,000, taxes $3790
6856 Edgevale; list price $375,000 taxes $4073
445 W. 69th; list price $379,000 taxes $5059
1211 W. 50th Terrace; list price $379,900 taxes $5284
1005 W. 70th Terrace; list price $379,950 taxes $5173
6342 Main; list price $380,000 taxes $2403 (overpriced or under accessed)
6435 Wornall Terr; list price $385,000, taxes4156
6000 McGee; list price $389,950, taxes $4655
5148 Baltimore; list price $389,950 taxes $3536
427 W. 63rd; list price $389,950 taxes $3644
7059 Edgevale under contract with a list price of $373,950, taxes $5382

Unless that house in German Village is not worth anywhere close to the asking price, I'd say the property taxes in Kansas City are obviously higher.

[FangKC]

Nope.  KC-ian married retirees won't dare buy an 800-sqft place.  They'd strangle each other.  They're used to living in 2000 sqft minimum, and this would be like putting 2 rhino's in a cage together.

You are assuming all retirees and homeowners are married. You aren't taking into account the divorce rate, or the fact that some baby-boomers will die years before their partner.  You are also neglecting the post-divorce market where one partner (not even retired) is looking for a smaller space to live in post-marriage, while they still pay for the house and kids in the suburbs.  Many younger people are also waiting until their 30s to get married, and are able to earn enough money by their early 30s to buy a small condo in which to dwell until they marry, and use the equity to buy a larger place for child-rearing.

The fastest growing market, and trend, is to single-occupany dwellings.  The "down-sizing" market is also picking up steam.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Maybe I am off base but it seems like an amazing amount of urban condos get bought by people who only live in them intermittently.  Folks who only live in KC part time or come here frequently to visit family, etc.  We were recently invited to a get together at Western Auto at a condo owned by a young couple, both of whom work overseas but still have family here and come back for holidays and breaks. 

[FangKC]

Places like Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando, Tampa-St. Petersburg, New York, Phoenix, Tucson, Martha's Vineyard, Palm Springs, Palm Beach, Branson, Honolulu, and San Diego have large parts of their condo market supported by temporary residents.

[chrizow]

Places like Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando, Tampa-St. Petersburg, New York, Phoenix, Tucson, Martha's Vineyard, Palm Springs, Palm Beach, Branson, Honolulu, and San Diego have large parts of their condo market supported by temporary residents.

true...but kc isn't even close to any of those cities in terms of being a seasonal place.  if anyone has a temporary home here, it's probably b/c they travel here for work frequently, have family here, etc. 

i don't have a source for this, but it seems to me that the prime category of small condo buyer is one KC has a lot of - people under 35 who either individually or, as a couple, make around $60,000 per year or more.  in atriums east, where i used to live, 600 sq ft studio units sold from 90-120K or so and larger units sold for prices up into the 200s, and i bet 99% of the people in that building are couples or single people between 23 and 35 years old. 

[FangKC]

I believe I read somewhere that Jonathan Kemper has a condo apartment downtown in addition to his house in another part of the City.

[Maitre D]

I believe I read somewhere that Jonathan Kemper has a condo apartment downtown in addition to his house in another part of the City.

My parents do that too - place in the Northland, condo on the Plaza.

[K.C.Highrise]

"Nope.  KC-ian married retirees won't dare buy an 800-sqft place.  They'd strangle each other.  They're used to living in 2000 sqft minimum, and this would be like putting 2 rhino's in a cage together."

"My parents do that too - place in the Northland, condo on the Plaza."
-MD 

[kuslamb]

Not typical, but I met some new neighbors at Wall Street Tower.  They live out in Saint Jo for the week and spend the weekends in DTKC.  I live DT and love it, but thought it was strange.  They were nice people though.  Both probably 55+ years of age.  We have since seen them cruising around the city market on the weekend.  I am not sure if they purchased at WST for investment purpose or for leisure, but they said they like it and know of a couple of other couples their age that are doing the same.

[Maitre D]

"Nope.  KC-ian married retirees won't dare buy an 800-sqft place.  They'd strangle each other.  They're used to living in 2000 sqft minimum, and this would be like putting 2 rhino's in a cage together."

"My parents do that too - place in the Northland, condo on the Plaza."
-MD 

They have a 2500 sqft condo tho.  That's my point.  800sqft isn't desirable for most boomer empty-nesters.

[KCPowercat]

Good night....not everybody is looking for the same thing....some want location.  If you are looking for max price per square foot....downtown or the plaza is not for you...why is this difficult to understand for some?

Your reality is not everyone's reality.  Personally I'll always pay more per square foot for location.....personally I have zero desire to max. out my square footage......and condos being snatched up by single people and couples would show I'm not the only one.

If you are one that needs more space...more power to you....but don't look downtown or the plaza or you will be disappointed.

[HalcyonKC]

Raw abandoned industrial space is the cheapest for square footage if that's what a guy is after. 

My place is much nicer than it would be if I took the same money I spent on it, and tried to spread that out over greater square footage.  Granite countertops and other reasonably nice appointments would have to be nixed and revert to cheaper grades.  Then I'd have to go buy furniture to fill up the extra space I didn't need in the first place, as well as heat and cool the additional room.

[HalcyonKC]

The prices in Kansas City are reasonable for virtually any dwelling.  This is a 2-bed, one-bath, fixer-upper in Columbus, Ohio, a similarly-sized Midwestern market.  The asking price for this old girl is $380,000.

And we think our property taxes are high: Yearly Taxes: $3,229 for a old, unrenovated house.

http://www2.herrealtors.com/vutech.ruff ... 751&ID=326

The high price has an obvious reason--the listing clearly states that the house was built in the far future.  "Built in: 9999".  Houses from that year most likely have a switch in them that you can flip, and automatically re-project the structure in any manner you desire, sort of like the Matrix.  You could probably even have a house "screen saver" of sorts where the house just randomly moves through different styles.  You'd probably want to make sure to have your bed in the same place regardless of floor plan though, so that it doesn't dematerialize from beneath you at night.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I am showing my age but what is funny about that is some old computer programs would not take alpha symbol where a numeric symbol was needed, like in a year.  So if you did not know the year, like in this case the year built, you would put "9999", or "0000", since you could not enter "unkn".

[Maitre D]

Raw abandoned industrial space is the cheapest for square footage if that's what a guy is after. 

Right.  Conceivably, I could buy an abandoned building on Troost and knock out an entire floor full of walls, and create 1 master unit of 10,000 sq ft.

But....

[K.C.Highrise]

FYI "troost" is not the cheapest, or worst area of the city.