Sprint Center's necessity?

[trailerkid]

as long as the city isn't subsidizing operations who gives a shit?

Because it has the potential (with a sports tenant) to positively impact the publicly subsidized investments made around it. With more crowds at the arena willing to stay at hotels downtown or spend $ at restaurants, downtown and specifically the P+L increase in vitality. 

[beautyfromashes]

It's in the SC suite contracts that the price of the suites goes up if there is a minor league hockey or basketball tenant.  Now, why, if there was no chance of getting an NHL or NBA team wouldn't AEG just run out and sign up a minor league tenant to get the extra suite funds?  The answer is....they think there is a decent chance of getting an NBA or NHL team and getting an even higher price for the suites under contract. 

[ignatius]

Is SC meeting its obligated payments on schedule?  Is it on target with its original business plan?  If so, it is generally a success.

Here are # of touring events scheduled for arenas (just touring tracked by pollstar, not all events)

Sprint Center, KC - 20
Scottrade, STL - 11
Qwest, Omaha - 18
Pepsi, Denver - 9
BOK, Tulsa - 9
Staples, LA - 10
Target, Minni - 18
United, Chicago - 3
AA, Dallas - 11
MSG, NYC - 13

I haven't found one arena with more touring concerts booked than SC.

[GRID]

Bring an AHL team in.

[KC-wildcat]

Is SC meeting its obligated payments on schedule?  Is it on target with its original business plan?  If so, it is generally a success.

Here are # of touring events scheduled for arenas (just touring tracked by pollstar, not all events)

Sprint Center, KC - 20
Scottrade, STL - 11
Qwest, Omaha - 18
Pepsi, Denver - 9
BOK, Tulsa - 9
Staples, LA - 10
Target, Minni - 18
United, Chicago - 3
AA, Dallas - 11
MSG, NYC - 13

I haven't found one arena with more touring concerts booked than SC.

I hate facts.  Without them, arguing is much more fun. 

[chrizow]

half of those places have pro tenants.  the SC would be much better off with a pro tenant, than without.  pretty easy stuff.

[ignatius]

Agreed, but is SC making its payments on schedule?  Is it meeting its original contract agreements?  I'm thinking it is.

And BTW, do any of the other arenas have summer sports events?  SC is still outpacing other arenas for the summer.

[KCPowercat]

Bring an AHL team in.

Why bring trash to our new arena...leave that stuff in the burbs with the 7k seating "facilities"

[trailerkid]

I hate facts.  Without them, arguing is much more fun. 

Facts? You mean the fact that the BOK Center sold 50,000 more live event tickets last year than Sprint Center? Those facts?

pretty easy stuff.

Not for a lot of people on here...obviously.

[KCPowercat]

the SC would be much better off with a pro tenant, than without.  pretty easy stuff.

I'm going to pull a AKP here...depends on how you define "better off".  it was widely stated prior to the opening that arenas can make more money without a pro team taking up dates...by those building and running the arenas.

I tend to believe them but common sense would lead you to believe more open dates that a pro tenant gives puts them in better shape...as I remember their statements it came down to when it's a sports team, you have to cut costs charged to pro team (ala free rent) and prime dates being taken away....of course with a pro team sprint pays up more for naming rights and they fulfill their "promise" to the city, so in that right they are "better off".

[trailerkid]

I'm going to pull a AKP here...depends on how you define "better off".  it was widely stated prior to the opening that arenas can make more money without a pro team taking up dates...by those building and running the arenas.

I tend to believe them but common sense would lead you to believe more open dates that a pro tenant gives puts them in better shape...as I remember their statements it came down to when it's a sports team, you have to cut costs charged to pro team (ala free rent) and prime dates being taken away....of course with a pro team sprint pays up more for naming rights and they fulfill their "promise" to the city, so in that right they are "better off".

Because we've built the economy of the "new" downtown on the Sprint Center, I'm more concerned with the effect on the surrounding neighborhoods rather than Sprint Center's ledger balance (is AEG liable for operating deficits/profits?). The concert schedule wouldn't drastically change with a sports tenant and would still be in line with other cities, but there would likely be an upward swing in sales tax revenue at bars/restaurants in the surrounding area.

[KCPowercat]

Because we've built the economy of the "new" downtown on the Sprint Center

we've went round and round on this one before...I fundamentally disagree with that statement...if we did, we're idiots.

I'm more concerned with the effect on the surrounding neighborhoods rather than Sprint Center's ledger balance (is AEG liable for operating deficits/profits?).

Didn't say I was either, just answering Chriz's comment about the arena would be "better off".

[aknowledgeableperson]

The concert schedule wouldn't drastically change with a sports tenant and would still be in line with other cities

Depends on how you define "drastically".  In the past an arena's busy schedule is between October and April, which is obviously during the BB and Hockey seasons.  If the SC were to add 41 dates for a sports tenant then my somewhat educated guess would be that the SC would lose 6 to 7 concerts and/or other shows that took place in the arena during these past two years.

In Kemper's hayday we would do 25 to 30 concerts a year and that was with hockey or soccer and basketball.  Throw in the other non-concert events the arena would have during those prime months that doesn't leave much for concerts.  Concert routing was somewhat different back then but we would still lose our fair share of concerts bacause dates were not available.

The city may have built its new downtown economy on the Sprint Center but AEG's pocketbook has more cash in it with concerts and other events than with a sports tenant (especially since AEG absorbs any operating loss).

[trailerkid]

The city may have built its new downtown economy on the Sprint Center but AEG's pocketbook has more cash in it with concerts and other events than with a sports tenant (especially since AEG absorbs any operating loss).

I don't doubt that, but the city gains a lot more (name recognition, sales tax revenue at surrounding businesses, more pedestrian activity on more dates, and generally having a pro team tie its name to downtown kansas city) having a pro sports franchise operate out of that building and losing those 6-7 concerts.

If you're asking me to invest in the ability of the music industry filling an 18,000 seat arena or professional/college sports...it's a no brainer. Like I said, the shitty concerts from aged rock stars may be more profitable to the operator.

[aknowledgeableperson]

You would be surprised about the amount of sales tax revenue a concert could generate.

The average sales price of a concert ticket should be higher for a concert than a pro sports team which generates more sales tax.

In the past concession sales were higher, per cap, with concerts than with pro sports teams which generates more sales tax.

In the past novelty sales, t-shirts, etc, are higher with concerts than with pro sports teams which generates more sales tax.

Staffing is more and costs are higher with concerts than with pro sports which generates more E-tax.

[trailerkid]

You would be surprised about the amount of sales tax revenue a concert could generate.

The average sales price of a concert ticket should be higher for a concert than a pro sports team which generates more sales tax.

In the past concession sales were higher, per cap, with concerts than with pro sports teams which generates more sales tax.

In the past novelty sales, t-shirts, etc, are higher with concerts than with pro sports teams which generates more sales tax.

Staffing is more and costs are higher with concerts than with pro sports which generates more E-tax.

I see your point. You do a good job of illustrating just how necessary a new arena was to Kansas City. Do you have any numbers to back up your comparisons?

I would have a hard time believing that 5-6 more concerts at American Airlines Center in Dallas delivers more overall economic impact downtown than hosting a season of the Dallas Mavericks.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I see your point. You do a good job of illustrating just how necessary a new arena was to Kansas City. Do you have any numbers to back up your comparisons?

I would have a hard time believing that 5-6 more concerts at American Airlines Center in Dallas delivers more overall economic impact downtown than hosting a season of the Dallas Mavericks.

Just have my experience of working 18 years in the arena business and looking over financial data of events (sports, concerts, family shows, etc.).  I do not know about Dallas but my point was only that AEG could overall make more money from concerts and similiar events than with a revenue sharing sports team and what may be good for downtown interests may not necessarily be in the best interests of AEG.  At the same time the economic impact to the city coffers may have little or no difference.

[trailerkid]

Just have my experience of working 18 years in the arena business and looking over financial data of events (sports, concerts, family shows, etc.). 

Was your 18 years of experience outside of the Kansas City market? Just wondering what market you get your data from because the sports, concerts, and family shows have been complete shit here for at least 15 years-- pretty much the reason people wanted a new arena. Numbers from the early 90s at an arena next to a stockyards might not be the best example for analysis today.

[aknowledgeableperson]

In KC.  Period of time from the 70's into the 80's and then the 90's into 00's.

I don't know where you get your info or what you're smoking but those events were not "complete s---" for the last 15 years in Kansas City.  With regards to sports, yes we did not have NBA or NHL on a season basis but we did have exhibition games here and there and don't forget the Big 12 along with a few NCAA events and a few good early years with the Blades.  With regards to family shows we had the same shows back then as we do now, Ringling Brothers, Sesame Street, Disney on Ice, etc.  And concerts, we may not have had each and every one of the "big shows" but we had our fair share, four nights of Garth in the mid 90's, CSN&Y, Rolling Stones, etc.  Also had the motor sports shows.  So KC didn't miss out on all that much during that time.  There were a few concerts that KC missed out on because Kemper's roof could not support all of the equipment that was hung but other concerts did come when a few alterations were made (don't forget, when Kemper was originally constructed concerts did not have video feeds and sound equipment was put on wings on the side of the stage).

Would also read trade journals, talk to the show people (I was the one they settled with), shared info with the concessions people, and so on.  So I would have had fairly good information concerning sales (tickets and per caps) in KC and what many shows and events did in other locations.

For most people, and shows, it didn't matter that Kemper Arena was in the stockyards, if they wanted to see the show (or come to KC) they would buy their tickets and come.  If they didn't want to see the show (or come to KC) they wouldn't buy the tickets.

[trailerkid]

In KC.  Period of time from the 70's into the 80's and then the 90's into 00's.

I don't know where you get your info or what you're smoking but those events were not "complete s---" for the last 15 years in Kansas City.  With regards to sports, yes we did not have NBA or NHL on a season basis but we did have exhibition games here and there and don't forget the Big 12 along with a few NCAA events and a few good early years with the Blades.  With regards to family shows we had the same shows back then as we do now, Ringling Brothers, Sesame Street, Disney on Ice, etc.  And concerts, we may not have had each and every one of the "big shows" but we had our fair share, four nights of Garth in the mid 90's, CSN&Y, Rolling Stones, etc.  Also had the motor sports shows.  So KC didn't miss out on all that much during that time.  There were a few concerts that KC missed out on because Kemper's roof could not support all of the equipment that was hung but other concerts did come when a few alterations were made (don't forget, when Kemper was originally constructed concerts did not have video feeds and sound equipment was put on wings on the side of the stage).

Would also read trade journals, talk to the show people (I was the one they settled with), shared info with the concessions people, and so on.  So I would have had fairly good information concerning sales (tickets and per caps) in KC and what many shows and events did in other locations.

For most people, and shows, it didn't matter that Kemper Arena was in the stockyards, if they wanted to see the show (or come to KC) they would buy their tickets and come.  If they didn't want to see the show (or come to KC) they wouldn't buy the tickets.

And where exactly does your knowledge of contemporary pro sports and their economic impact come from again? You seem to have left that part out. Kemper Arena has lost 2 pro sports teams and eventually the Big XII tourney during your tenure so I'm not sure you're the best source of what direction we need to be headed.

I get that AEG might want concerts more than sports. I'm just saying that sports are more important to the community than a damn Slipknot concert.