When will the residential component of KC Live be built?

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:15 am

This is still bugging me. If they don't build at least two or three towers in the first phase, there will be so much dead space and possibly even remnants of the surface lots that are there now between the arena, KC Live, Ballroom etc. Asthetically, that would suck and the density would not be where it needs to be to give the area an urban feel.

I would really like to know what the timeline is for the residential towers.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:28 am

I had thought they'd build half first and half later... I hope they build them all at once too... That'd be something like 4-5 10 floor residential towers all at once, along with all the rest of the construction...

GRID you dream you had 2 years ago is coming true

Post by **chrizow** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:56 am

i concur. i really hope they get the residential stuff in there first, so there is a built-in customer base waiting to flood the entertainment district.

it is very important that the entertainment district hits the ground running. if suburban people go down there and it is desolate (unlikely) then they probably wouldnt come back. getting the residential done first would be huge.

i wish they were putting residential (or office space) above the businesses though. giovanni sasso over at SSP posted a photo thread of University City in Philly recently that shows a picture of recent infill re-development in Philly where there is bottom-level retail and what appears to be residential (or office space) above. thus, the commercial stuff doesn't look like Town Center, and it adds more density to the area.

Post by **dangerboy** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:46 am

Maybe they will at least have the residential under construction when the entertainment opens, so that people can see that more stuff is being built.

kurtiebird · Post by **kurtiebird** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:06 pm

I'd think the place would be hopping with 1200 H&R Block employees right in the middle. I for one plan to spend a lot of time and $$$ there once it's all built, and people I work with feel the same way.

KCK · Post by **KCK** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:24 am

How much residential was planned to go in the area? I'm hoping that it will have a whole Wrigleyville feel to it.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:09 am

I believe it was 1,200 units just for the P&L District. So far from the maps I've counted 4 towers and so that'd be 300 units in each tower (about 10 floors each)

Post by **chrizow** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:13 am

i like the idea of 1,200 units, but i'd kind of like to see them in a more humble, walkable neighborhood setting as opposed to high-rises surrounding the P+L district. high-rises have people in them, which is good, but not much connectivity to the streetscape. i'd like to see bottom level retail/services OR residential styles that lend themselves to public interaction - porches, street-level doors, etc. rowhouses, 4-plexes, etc.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:18 am

comon, we need more density rather than a quality hill setting...

Otherwise the H&R Block tower will stick out like One First National Center in Omaha!

Post by **chrizow** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:23 am

hahaa i think not! a 16-story bldg in that part of downtown wont stick out at all, especially next to a giant arena.

i am all for towers and density. but i think KC has a LOT of that on the Plaza and in Crown Center and in the new rehabbed downtown towers (909, P+L, wallstreet, etc.)

i think that KC is more lacking in true "neighborhood" urbanity downtown. River Market is good, Xroads is good, Quality Hill is great. i think that these more human-scale places are much more inviting than a huge tower that offers little to the sidewalk life of the area.

i'd rather see more areas like Lincoln Park in Chicago, where there are blocks and blocks of beautiful leafy townhome/rowhouse/low-rise residential adjacent to bars/businesses.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:28 am

not 16 floors, 18 floors... That is at least 200ft tall... I was meaning it's location in the P&L District will make it stick out... KC needs as much density as it can get, forget building houses like in Quality Hill... It's more important to build 4646 Broadway/SF Tower buildings in downtown and Crown Center.

Downtown should be and needs to be TONS more denser than the Plaza and alot denser than it already is...

Sure we should shoot for real housing density, however not downtown... How many big league cities have more houses than 10+ floor towers in their downtown? Minneapolis doesn't... Chicago doesn't... Dallas doesn't...

Post by **chrizow** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:43 am

uhh....ok. the Gold Coast of the Chicago Loop has lots of smaller rowhouse places, as do many hoods in Minneapolis (incl. some VERY close to the CBD). so do st. louis, omaha, new york city, san francisco, houston, boston, philly, etc. it's very common to have small residential hoods like Quality Hill literally in the shadow of 50-story office towers. you just dont see them from the skyline photos.

i dont care if there are more tower units than smaller units, but the balance is nice. all cities should have it, and the good ones do.

towers are great, but i think that downtown is doing ok with towers with the 909, wallstreet, P+L, etc. projects. there are probably even more.

i am not saying there shouldn't be ANY new towers. i would just like to see downtown be a neighborhood. build towers, sure, but also some rows and smaller bldgs like that.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:24 pm

if you build smaller buildings, it keeps towers from being built because the amount of land lowers...

I've been to Chicago, and what is downtown Chicago has NO houses... Trust me, even my hotel was there and there weren't any houses in sight. Well, when we were in the Sears Tower and JHC there was but that is another thing

Chrizow... Don't you understand what i'm saying? I'm talking about their official boundaries... Not your personal opinion on what their downtowns are.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:44 pm

KCDevin wrote:not 16 floors, 18 floors...

How do you figure that? Within 1 block it it neighbored by 1KCP (40+ floors), The Power & Light building (31) floors, and the Hotel President (10? floors). It's a nice transition from the tallest structures to the shorter structures of the entertainment district. And it's tucked off in a corner. How will it stick out?

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:47 pm

I said in the P&L District it'll stick out... If you don't have 10 floors towers around it, all you'd have is an 18 floor tower, of course, b/ged by a 600 footer, 2 500ft towers and a 400 footer. Sticking out above buildings at most 5 floor buildings...

A building at over 200ft among buildings about 5 floors sticks out ALOT... It may be surpassed by the other towers, but my point is that it'll stick out in just that P&L District.

Density is better than anything else.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:50 pm

But it's in the far northwestern corner of it, tucked aagainst 1KCP and the President and Clubhouse Lofts and the Midland building and the P&L building. It's up against tall buildings. It's not like it's off by itself in the south central portion of the area.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:53 pm

you just aren't getting at what I'm saying... It will stick out to the majority of the district... If you want to keep from building those 1200 units and just build the entertainment portion, we might as well keep the current buildings and just build the tower right now without any newer construction...

IE, the district would SUCK without the 1,200 units and without the 4-5 10 floor towers...

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:58 pm

I'm in agreement that I'd rather have larger residential towers here than individual row units like in Quality Hill. You can get more people in and I also think that people aren't going to want to live in street-level homes in a neighborhood that will have potentially thousands of people streaming by their front windows every day.

I'm just disagreeing that H&R Block would stick out like a sore thumb without them.

It *is* however gonna stick out like a sore thumb until the entertainment district gets underway, since there is currently nothing but blight and scuzz on most of the surrounding blocks.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:00 pm

also by saying sticking out like a sore thumb I meant it'll be more visible in the skyline... It is better to have skyscrapers hidden in your skyline, like the Commerce Bank Tower or NY Life Tower or Commerce Trust Building.

If you want an Idea of how tall this building will be, look at the Commerce Bank Tower. (not Commerce Tower)

DanCa · Post by **DanCa** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:02 am

One thing I like about KC's skyline is that it has many different height buildings which does give it a look of density. Downtown LA seems to have few buildings between 10 and 40 floors so from certain angles it seems to have huge canyons cut through it.

I bit off topic, the city of Santa Ana here in Orange County approved a 37 story tower for its downtown. The tallest building currently is the courthouse which is around 10 stories. So basically they'll have a 1 building skyline. People in surrounding neighborhoods fought it, but it sounds like it's a go.