When will the residential component of KC Live be built?

[NDTeve]

Weren't they angry about the anchor tenant aspect as well?

[LenexatoKCMO]

Weren't they angry about the anchor tenant aspect as well?

That only emerged as an excuse when they started covering their ass for not filling the retail. 

[moderne]

Wasn't there some hold up or something on the first residential that was to be next to Cosentino's due to an effort to make a taller structure with a hotel on the lower floors and some city action was needed?

[KCPowercat]

yup...the city wouldn't go along with it even though cordish said they would back the tif (instead of the city)...would have been a combo hotel and residential tower.......

[dangerboy]

yup...the city wouldn't go along with it even though cordish said they would back the tif (instead of the city)...would have been a combo hotel and residential tower.......

For good reason, as this about the same time doubts were beginning to form about Cordish and all the hidden details of Wayne's contract with Cordish were beginning to come to light. Plus, the city was beginning to discourage small hotel projects so as to stop cannibalizing the market demand for a big convention hotel.

Regardless, the city's refusal to allow a condo hotel was no reason to kill the residential tower altogether.

[ignatius]

Can't really blame Cordish for killing the residential portion.  Building new hirise condos anywhere in city would have to go for $500K+ for a small unit. Those just aren't moving well in KC, except a bit on the Plaza, and still very slowly.  I doubt improvement in the housing industry will equate to interest in high end $500K+ condos for quite a while.  There are a lot of great converted condos in the $300-$400K range that compete with newly constructed over $500K.

[DaveKCMO]

Can't really blame Cordish for killing the residential portion.  Building new hirise condos anywhere in city would have to go for $500K+ for a small unit. Those just aren't moving well in KC, except a bit on the Plaza, and still very slowly.  I doubt improvement in the housing industry will equate to interest in high end $500K+ condos for quite a while.  There are a lot of great converted condos in the $300-$400K range that compete with newly constructed over $500K.

yes, we can.

plenty of ways around that... they could have boosted light rail (thus creating new momentum), built a combination hotel/condo tower, built shorter structures, finished out the midland into condos...

[LenexatoKCMO]

  I doubt improvement in the housing industry will equate to interest in high end $500K+ condos for quite a while. 

Demand may not rise anytime soon - but costs have likely fallen.  One of the oft-cited problems for new res tower construction in recent years has been sky high material costs.  With the economic meltdown, cement, steel, etc. aren't quite the expenses they were a few years ago.  

[ignatius]

plenty of ways around that... they could have boosted light rail (thus creating new momentum)

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on that.  And even so, that would take 10+ years to execute, so not for 'quite a while' as I said.

built a combination hotel/condo tower, built shorter structures,se 

Those still go for over $500K, are small and have very high maintenance.  But that would be a unique product in KC so might work.  Would really like to see an attempt to do one downtown.

finished out the midland into condos...

That's a conversion, not new.  Conversion costs less to do, which is why it will also be difficult to justify  new construction when there is still a lot of existing stock potentially available for conversion.

Even with cost drop in materials, new construction is still high for hirise.  Lowrise, that's a different story but even River Markerplace or whatever it's called, new construction that isn't really even urban yet is demanding the highest lease rates in city.

Once existing stock for conversion shrinks, then maybe new hirise construction is doable but there would need to be a specific demand for downtown living that is higher than the Plaza.  Not convinced downtown has reached that yet.  The 20s/30s want to live there, which is why there needs to be more leased units or cheaper condo conversions, not high end condos.  Plaza will own that for several more years methinks.

[dangerboy]

^It would take a lot less than 10 years for rail to boost investment.  Many cities see significant investment made before the line even opens.  Dallas has had $200 million invested along their eastern rail extension just since the route was announced, long before construction starts.

[bobbyhawks]

^It would take a lot less than 10 years for rail to boost investment.  Many cities see significant investment made before the line even opens.  Dallas has had $200 million invested along their eastern rail extension just since the route was announced, long before construction starts.

I'd sure hate to be having the same conversation about light rail 10+ years from now.  I still don't understand why so many people must see an immediate benefit to think this is a good idea.  Politicians that think more than two years ahead of time tend to get roasted in this city (heck, all over the country, really).  That said, I also agree that 10 years is a ridiculous time frame to see the impact of light rail.  All it takes is the announcement of the route before businesses want in on opportunities next to the stops.

[Angel]

Cordish scrapped the residential towers long before the recession hit.  There was supposed to be at least one tower open along with the first phase of restaurant/retail, which obviously didn't happen.

Cordish may have scrapped it internally, but they gave every appearance of moving forward on them until the market slide was well under way.  Mid-2006 was when we really started to see the real estate market slide in KC (on the new construction side, anyway).  By mid-2007 the Broadway was scrapped along with any hope of new residential tower construction happening downtown.  It was during 2007 that we, my realtor colleagues and myself, heard the P&L residential towers were scrapped...not that anyone was surprised at that point.  I remember being at a meeting that spring or summer about the residential that was supposedly coming to the P&L.

[KCPowercat]

man cordish killed light rail TOO?  Is there no end to their evil?

[GRID]

Cleaver killed LRT in KC.  Otherwise, KC would be voting to expand the system, probably for the second time by now.

[moderne]

"touristy frou frou"

[DaveKCMO]

man cordish killed light rail TOO?  Is there no end to their evil?

one of many (including cleaver, funk, the chamber, etc.), yes.

they should have been right out in front, very early, instead of hemming and hawing over specifics (eventually killing the obvious alignment choice). clearly they would have reaped some of the greatest benefits of any stakeholder, with a stop right at their front door. the argument about construction impacts were so vacuous, considering the 3-4 years of construction impacts existing downtown tenants experienced while the city swept the south loop clean to welcome cordish.

it's not like the concept was foreign to them -- as other KC elites claimed -- since their other developments are in cities with rail.

[KCPowercat]

I really don't see their complaints as material to light rail's failure.  Hell the mcdonalds franchisee and the guy who owns that new car wash in midtown have done 1000x more damage.

[trailerkid]

What is everyone's fixation with building a billion-dollar toy train that will go slower than a car in traffic? It is not the end-all, be-all to Kansas City. Go to MPLS. Their train is touristy frou frou.

Spend a billion dollars fixing up neighborhoods & rebuilding KCMSD so maybe you'll have people that actually want to live in the city proper. 

[chrizow]

Spend a billion dollars fixing up neighborhoods & rebuilding KCMSD so maybe you'll have people that actually want to live in the city proper. 

this.  while i'd love to see a shiny light-rail train humming down main st. or whatever, it's not going to magically make people move to KC.  we could spend 1/4 of that money on a true BRT system, perhaps region-wide.  put our arterial thoroughfares on a road diet.  provide incentives for bum landlords to either fix up or sell their properties to people who give a shit.  i think it's time that KC focus on building urban neighborhood.  maybe focus some more energy on midtown - let's attract about a dozen more companies like MAC who are focused on improving the area and making good use of historic building stock.  let's make midtown and other areas in the urban core a hospitable place to open a small business.  let's give the same arts tax incentives to properties in midtown. 

[KC-wildcat]

What is everyone's fixation with building a billion-dollar toy train that will go slower than a car in traffic? It is not the end-all, be-all to Kansas City. Go to MPLS. Their train is touristy frou frou.

This is a funny comment, considering you've simultaneoulsy posted over in the Convention Hotel thread that KC will never get GOP/DNC conventions b/c we don't have the "necessary" transit.