P&L District: anything missing?

kcteen · Post by **kcteen** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:01 pm

After looking through cordish's "vision" for the downtown Kansas City entertainment district, i must say i'm extremely impressed (even moreso than I thought I'd ever be).

In an effort to try to make the plans even better, I was just trying to think of things that would be great for the district but aren't currently included in the plans... I must admit they've gotten just about all i could think of, but anybody see anything that should be there?

Perhaps a theater complex would be cool. I still hate the fact AMC is headquareted in downtown Kansas City and there isn't a freaking movie theater nearby. The one in Crown Center is old and dilapidated. The Screenland theater downtown just opened nearby, which will cover the artistic films. I still think it would be nice, maybe not in the entertainment district, but somewhere to have an upscale theater to show hollywood films.

I also wish there were SOME more family-oriented component somwhere. I'm not sure the bowling or the hard-rock cafe like stuff counts. I'd like to see a video game place (espn zone coul dhave this) or even like a really cool urban putt-putt/restaurant (lol just an idea). Just something to draw the family down during the daytime would be nice. Do something WALT DISNEY orientated -- the KC area was the birthplace pretty much of mickey mouse (read walt Disney's Kansas City)

Once again, i think cordish hit it on the head with this entertainment concept, but anybody see anything that could improve the district that is missing entirely?

kcteen · Post by **kcteen** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:05 pm

i just wanted to add i think it would freaking cool to put a small circulator trolley route in. They will probably be redoing the streets anways. Put a circulator old-fashioned (like the one portland runs on weekends) circulator trolley that could hit the main drag, the hotels around barney allis, the arena, MAX line, and the parking lots. The stops would be frequent. I think this would be an attraction in and of itself. It would add a real historic KC component to the area.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:05 pm

maybe some of the retail will be more geared family? I agree someplace like a Dave & Busters or Gameworks would be neat.

As for other things "missing". The plans don't call for a music store but in a biz journal article today, it still talks about music stores so that might be coming.

Also no restaurant labeled as "BBQ restaurant" which this district should have at least one LOCAL.

MidtownCat · Post by **MidtownCat** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:11 pm

I mentioned this on another thread, but I'd personally really like to see us try to attract a Virgin Mega Store. Right in line with the entertainment aspect of the district.

There are currently 15 locations in the United States, with the closest being Chicago and Denver.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:25 pm

I have to second the theater suggestion. It doesn't even need to be a gigantic megaplex. In fact I'd rather it not be because I love The Palace and don't want to see it get driven out of business. Something with maybe 6 or 8 screens at most that shows a mix of first run and art films (like the Palace is trying to be) but with a gimmick. Maybe it could be the anti-palace, and have 1 or 2 auditoriums dedicated exclusively for parents with small children.

Also I still think a Brazilian rodizio would go over spectacularly in KC and that Cordish would have to be nuts not to get one put in here.

Oh and convert all the streets to brick or stone and add elements that impede/slow the flow of traffic.

And ditto on the Gameworks suggestion I saw above.

Post by **chrizow** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:31 pm

maybe there is an answer to this that escaped my attention, but...

is this district's streets going to be narrower than usual (say 2 lanes total) to promote walkability? and yes, brick or stone streets would be great. i remember that MKB editorial said that the sidewalks were going to be brick.

i dont know if i think anything is missing, per se, but i definitely want to make sure the chain to local ratio is 1:1 (wishful thinking).

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:34 pm

chrizow wrote:is this district's streets going to be narrower than usual (say 2 lanes total) to promote walkability?

Looking at the site plan it looks like the n/s streets are the same width, which isn't surprising since they are pretty major roads. But 13th and 14th both look like they narrow down considerably. 14th looks like it's only 1 lane, in fact, rather than the current 3.

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:52 pm

i just wanted to add i think it would freaking cool to put a small circulator trolley route in. They will probably be redoing the streets anways. Put a circulator old-fashioned (like the one portland runs on weekends) circulator trolley that could hit the main drag, the hotels around barney allis, the arena, MAX line, and the parking lots. The stops would be frequent. I think this would be an attraction in and of itself. It would add a real historic KC component to the area.

Great Idea... It could run from the

City Market to
P&L & Arena to
Crown Center & Union Station back north to
PAC to Broadway
Barney Allis Plaza to
Quality Hill then back to the City Market

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:59 pm

Just bring back the Downtowner and use a trolley instead. It was great. I can't believe the ATA got rid of it. Ran from City Market to Union Station/CC every 10 minutes down Grand and Main... for 25 cents.

Write the ATA at kcata.org and request they bring it back. Although MAX should serve the needs too if it ran every 10 minutes. A separate circular line would complement MAX well.

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:46 pm

SONY/PLAYSTATION Store... dig this! http://www.sftravel.com/metreon.html

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:33 pm

i like what i've seen, but i would love to see a few more things that would appeal to the residents and daily workers. The things announced so far are cool, but I don't think that an ESPNzone or HOB would be a place I'd hang out at after work or on the weekend. I'd like a few places like Coffee Girls, and Bar Natasha. small, neighborhood type places.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:39 pm

tat2kc wrote:i like what i've seen, but i would love to see a few more things that would appeal to the residents and daily workers. The things announced so far are cool, but I don't think that an ESPNzone or HOB would be a place I'd hang out at after work or on the weekend. I'd like a few places like Coffee Girls, and Bar Natasha. small, neighborhood type places.

The KC Live district is not for nice neighborhood places. Nice neighborhood places are not what we are paying Cordish to bring in. The idea is to make a dramatic statement in the center of downtown that acts as a nucleus for development and regional/national destination. An entertainment district should be "knock your socks off" not Coffee Girls. We have plenty of other space in greater downtown for neighborhood retail and hopefully P&L will facilitate more development for neighborhood restaurants and retail.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:45 pm

if its not for the local residents, then why is Cordish also marketing the over 10,000 residential units going in in the downtown area? As a nearby resident, without something other than event driven destination places, I'd rarely go.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:49 pm

tat2kc wrote:if its not for the local residents, then why is Cordish also marketing the over 10,000 residential units going in in the downtown area? As a nearby resident, without something other than event driven destination places, I'd rarely go.

Local residents need entertainment in addition to neighborhood needs. Just like the Plaza, P&L is an outside draw in addition to being the center of downtown. Just like the Plaza ain't going to replace FAO with Coffee Girls and an Osco Drug, P&L needs to go heavy on the destination spots that draw from outside the neighborhood.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:22 pm

I just thought of something that I hope is missing. The NE edge of this isn't very far from the government district and we're looking at something that's going to potentially see activity 24 hours a day. I hope they can find an appropriate way to keep panhandlers out so that all the visitors not used to that sort of thing won't be put off by it and fear coming back.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:44 pm

scooterj wrote:I just thought of something that I hope is missing. The NE edge of this isn't very far from the government district and we're looking at something that's going to potentially see activity 24 hours a day. I hope they can find an appropriate way to keep panhandlers out so that all the visitors not used to that sort of thing won't be put off by it and fear coming back.

Yes...put the panhandlers in cages and keep them in the government district.

kcteen · Post by **kcteen** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:45 pm

another big thing

COVER THE FREEWAY LOOP (at least in one spot!)

on the 3d view of the district on their website, it shows the freeway loop covered for one block (excellent).

however, on the aerial plan (the plan that has been sectioned off and posted in the other threads of this site) it doesnt show any part of the loop covered, if i'm reading it right.

Covering the freeway loop is extremely important in connecting this district to the rest of downtown and encouraging growth in surronding neighborhoods.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:09 pm

kcteen wrote:another big thing

COVER THE FREEWAY LOOP (at least in one spot!)

on the 3d view of the district on their website, it shows the freeway loop covered for one block (excellent).

however, on the aerial plan (the plan that has been sectioned off and posted in the other threads of this site) it doesnt show any part of the loop covered, if i'm reading it right.

Covering the freeway loop is extremely important in connecting this district to the rest of downtown and encouraging growth in surronding neighborhoods.

There are large parking lots/decks lining Truman Rd. all along the development district so i don't really see much point in covering the loop. Have a green area over the freeway so people can be surrounded by parking decks on every block to the north? I also appreciate the design of the Star's printing press and the way it peers over the freeway.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:42 pm

sorry to disagree trailer, but with all the residents moving into the loop and crossroads, there has to be something in the entertainment district to keep these folks interested and coming back. HOB and Hard Rock and similar places are not places for locals to hang out at. It needs to be a mix of places that are attractive not only to those outside the immediate area, but also to those who live and work daily there.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:09 pm

tat2kc wrote:sorry to disagree trailer, but with all the residents moving into the loop and crossroads, there has to be something in the entertainment district to keep these folks interested and coming back. HOB and Hard Rock and similar places are not places for locals to hang out at. It needs to be a mix of places that are attractive not only to those outside the immediate area, but also to those who live and work daily there.

These things won't keep locals coming back?

The "food court" area in front of the Block building (Chipotle, Sushi, Pan-Asian, Retro Diner)

Retail zone (Borders, thousands and thousands of sq. feet of retail on the northwestern part of the site plan)

Enclosed club district next to the arena (17 bars and nighclubs next to the Sprint Center)

Some of the best restaurants in the city (Block building, next to ESPN, cluster of seafood, tapas, and wine bar, and Steakhouse.)