P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby wahoowa » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:15 pm

KCPowercat wrote:Feels like they are doing char bar honestly.

this is definitely the vibe i got at the picnic
beautyfromashes wrote:Better than GB!

yessss

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby loftguy » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:03 pm

Again, Jeff Stehney is quoted as saying that he will never open a Joe's in the state of Missouri.

Guess this is his way of staying true to his word.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby mean » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:23 pm

StrangerThings wrote:If it's confusing to people, big deal, they'll figure it out. It won't be confusing to the tourist market, the big 12 customers, the concert goers or anyone else who can use a smartphone to search for nearby restaurants. It won't be confusing to anyone who walks by and can see the Joe's logo, granted smaller and underneath the County Line title.


I'm just trying to make the point that people generally want to go to that place they heard about online or from Anthony Bourdain or whatever, and this isn't it, but it sort of is, or at least it theoretically has some of the same food. I'm sure there will be some people who are like "Huh? This isn't the place I wanted to go to, but it kind of is, but not really, but I should still just go there because some of the food is the same and it's closer than that gas station thing I saw on TV?" I mean... it's kind of confusing!

StrangerThings wrote:The bottom line is, regardless of this mystical confusion you speak of, this is probably the best restaurant addition to the P&L district in years, if not ever. Now, that's my opinion, so by all means feel free to rip that apart too.


I tend to share that assessment, and if the food is up to par I have little doubt it will be successful regardless of the situation being a little hard to explain clearly in a brief manner to tourists seeking that place they heard about. "Just go there, trust me," is probably going to be enough of an explanation most of the time.

StrangerThings wrote:As for calling me a "cordish apologist", I can just go back to reading and not commenting like I did for years before speaking up. I see questions that I have answers to and try to offer some insight.


That wasn't meant as an insult, or even a negative thing--I'm glad Cordish has a something of an advocate around, because it's really easy to get a bit overly cynical about a corporation's motives and intentions. Most of the time I feel like your posts help clear things up when there are questions or doubts about those things, just maybe a skosh overly defensive on this one.

StrangerThings wrote:Congratulations on fitting the most "joes" into a single paragraph by the way.


I thought I was being funny, but I suppose it could be read not as an attempt at humor but an attempt to sort of beat someone over the head with a point by repetition, which wasn't my intention. I apologize if you read it that way.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby beautyfromashes » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:23 pm

Honestly, I like it. There's already a Joes. Why just get a cheap imitation of the original instead of a new concept? I think it will do great. Why don't we do other new concepts based on KC originals? How about Strouds Chicken & Waffles or a Golden Ox steak sandwich shop?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby shinatoo » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:27 pm

I can get Joe's and keep my tax dollars in Missouri. Tourist can go to Kansas and get the "real" Joe's and see how boring it is over there.
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby smh » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:30 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
mean wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".


Cool story, but that doesn't really address how anyone thought this was a better idea than that.

"I'm tired of giving people what they want, so instead I'm going to give people something vaguely similar but simultaneously entirely different, with a completely different and unfamiliar name, which they may or may not want!" seems like a questionable approach to business.

Above and beyond that, you seem to be having a hard time keeping things straight...

StrangerThings wrote:Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".


StrangerThings wrote:this is a joes


You're already making things confusing, and you're the one claiming there won't be any confusion! It's a Joe's, but it isn't a Joe's, but it is a Joe's because there is Joe's branding, but it isn't a Joe's because he said he wouldn't open any more Joe's, but it is a Joe's because it has Joe's food, but it isn't a Joe's because it isn't called a Joe's, but it is a Joe's because the guy behind Joe's is a partner, but it isn't a Joe's because there's table service, but it is a Joe's but it isn't a Joe's, but it is a Joe's, but it isn't a Joe's, but it is, but it isn't, but it is, but it isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't.

Look, I get it, you're the resident Cordish apologist, but come on. This is stupid, and it is going to confuse people, and it already is confusing people.


My lord, are we just arguing for the fun of it? I think it's obvious what I'm trying to say, but I don't have time to explain in terms understandable to all people, especially ones who are combative and argumentative. JEFF (I'm not a history buff on the evolution of JOE'S BBQ) has said he doesn't want to open anymore restaurants that are JUST "JOES". Maybe he's bored, maybe he doesn't want Joe's to become too must like a franchise you see on every corner which can cause the brand to loose some authenticity? I'm not sure, Jeff and I don't kick it at BBQ festivals while drinking non-craft beer, so you'll have to ask him.

This is a NEW concept, that features Joe's BBQ. It is NOT in name "JOE"S BBQ".

If it's confusing to people, big deal, they'll figure it out. It won't be confusing to the tourist market, the big 12 customers, the concert goers or anyone else who can use a smartphone to search for nearby restaurants. It won't be confusing to anyone who walks by and can see the Joe's logo, granted smaller and underneath the County Line title.

The bottom line is, regardless of this mystical confusion you speak of, this is probably the best restaurant addition to the P&L district in years, if not ever. Now, that's my opinion, so by all means feel free to rip that apart too.

As for calling me a "cordish apologist", I can just go back to reading and not commenting like I did for years before speaking up. I see questions that I have answers to and try to offer some insight.

Congratulations on fitting the most "joes" into a single paragraph by the way.


FWIW, quibbles aside, we thoroughly appreciate your input on here. Hope you'll keep it up.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby DaveKCMO » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:09 pm

people like cheap imitations.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:02 pm

In this case expensive ones

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby JBmidtown » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:04 pm

It's just BBQ y'all ffs.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby im2kull » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:39 pm

The thing everyone seems to be forgetting is that literally every non-kansas citian who's visiting town looking for a cool, Google defined BBQ joint in town to check out, is going to see "Joes KC" pop up on Google maps, along with this "Ice house" concept and a hundred other similarly unrelated-to-bbq (or what tourists view as authentic/unique to kc) places.. And completely skip the "ice house" BS in lieu of "Joe's", or Arthur Bryant's, or Q39.. Etc. NOBODY is going to connect the dots and realize that the ice house is a slimmed down/fattened up "Joe's" unless they're actually in the restaurant already looking at the menu graphic design. Especially when the term "ice house" is ALREADY being completely overused in the name of nearly every hipster bar, club, and restaurant in every other major American city. I've been to at least five places this year outside of kc incorporating the ice house term into their names, and I definitely don't think of them as a destination location..

Joe's KC BBQ located downtown, even with an expanded menu and sit down formal seating.. People would FLOCK to.. Because it's clearly unique to Kansas City. Unique things are all the rage right now. Not another "ice house" collaboration.

That's a complete and utter FAIL.

No way around it.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby Highlander » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:09 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
mean wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".


Cool story, but that doesn't really address how anyone thought this was a better idea than that.

"I'm tired of giving people what they want, so instead I'm going to give people something vaguely similar but simultaneously entirely different, with a completely different and unfamiliar name, which they may or may not want!" seems like a questionable approach to business.

Above and beyond that, you seem to be having a hard time keeping things straight...

StrangerThings wrote:Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".


StrangerThings wrote:this is a joes


You're already making things confusing, and you're the one claiming there won't be any confusion! It's a Joe's, but it isn't a Joe's, but it is a Joe's because there is Joe's branding, but it isn't a Joe's because he said he wouldn't open any more Joe's, but it is a Joe's because it has Joe's food, but it isn't a Joe's because it isn't called a Joe's, but it is a Joe's because the guy behind Joe's is a partner, but it isn't a Joe's because there's table service, but it is a Joe's but it isn't a Joe's, but it is a Joe's, but it isn't a Joe's, but it is, but it isn't, but it is, but it isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't.

Look, I get it, you're the resident Cordish apologist, but come on. This is stupid, and it is going to confuse people, and it already is confusing people.


My lord, are we just arguing for the fun of it? I think it's obvious what I'm trying to say, but I don't have time to explain in terms understandable to all people, especially ones who are combative and argumentative. JEFF (I'm not a history buff on the evolution of JOE'S BBQ) has said he doesn't want to open anymore restaurants that are JUST "JOES". Maybe he's bored, maybe he doesn't want Joe's to become too must like a franchise you see on every corner which can cause the brand to loose some authenticity? I'm not sure, Jeff and I don't kick it at BBQ festivals while drinking non-craft beer, so you'll have to ask him.

This is a NEW concept, that features Joe's BBQ. It is NOT in name "JOE"S BBQ".

If it's confusing to people, big deal, they'll figure it out. It won't be confusing to the tourist market, the big 12 customers, the concert goers or anyone else who can use a smartphone to search for nearby restaurants. It won't be confusing to anyone who walks by and can see the Joe's logo, granted smaller and underneath the County Line title.

The bottom line is, regardless of this mystical confusion you speak of, this is probably the best restaurant addition to the P&L district in years, if not ever. Now, that's my opinion, so by all means feel free to rip that apart too.

As for calling me a "cordish apologist", I can just go back to reading and not commenting like I did for years before speaking up. I see questions that I have answers to and try to offer some insight.

Congratulations on fitting the most "joes" into a single paragraph by the way.


Still confused here. Is this affiliated with the County Line BBQ chain out of Austin TX? That alone would be a huge contrast in BBQ styles.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby chingon » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:38 pm

Not how I would have played this one if it was my money on the line, but between this weird tangent and the not-so-secret joint side venture, I have to respect Stehney's obvious desire to spread his culinary wings.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby NorthOak » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:48 am

Ya know, I have to say this guy may be a good businessman and know the BBQ restaurant biz.
But that dumb son-of-a-bitch is the most clueless moron ever shat out of an ass when it comes to naming his shit.

I mean, we're talking Kansas City BBQ, which has a great urban culture and tradition going back to the 18th & Vine District with Henry Perry and then Gates and others. And this hayseed bastard goes out of his way to give his shit the dumbest, most hokey names ever invented.

Oklahoma Joes
Ok everyone makes a mistake now and then and names his shit after a state that has no BBQ tradition and that makes most people think of dirt roads and tornados. I gave him a pass thinking; he's just not a creative (or logical) person and he doesn't care about KC's rep as a BBQ capital, he would rather name his shit something dumb.

Then he realizes after years that OK Joes is a dumb ass name and rightly changes it to KC Joes.
OK, he understand he was a dumb ass for naming it OK Joes and wants to make it right. Good for him.

Now he comes up with "County Line Ice House."
WTF is this idiot thinking? He's in the center of the downtown of a major US city and he comes up with a name that gives the impression of a roadhouse shack on the back 40 acres of nowhere that may or may not have indoor plumbing or electricity.
Maybe he can have people sit on hay bales rather than dining chairs to complete the illusion.
This guy simply doesn't give a flip about this city's reputation.
He's a clown and most likely has a velvet canvas painting of Elvis.
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby beautyfromashes » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:33 am

A lot of people complaining about the name having no following or that it's dumb need to remember that only a few years ago a BBQ restaurant was opened with an even worse name and became a huge hit...Q39. A name doesn't really matter. If the food is good, service polite and quick and a good atmosphere, it will be wildly popular.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby flyingember » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:20 am

NorthOak wrote:Oklahoma Joes
Ok everyone makes a mistake now and then and names his shit after a state that has no BBQ tradition and that makes most people think of dirt roads and tornados. I gave him a pass thinking; he's just not a creative (or logical) person and he doesn't care about KC's rep as a BBQ capital, he would rather name his shit something dumb.

Then he realizes after years that OK Joes is a dumb ass name and rightly changes it to KC Joes.
OK, he understand he was a dumb ass for naming it OK Joes and wants to make it right. Good for him.


It's worth looking up the reason behind the name history and change before insulting it.
It was a business requirement.

The Kansas Oklahoma Joe's restaurants don't have any tie to Joe or Oklahoma and haven't for almost 20 years. But the name stuck because it was opened when they still had a store in Oklahoma and were associated with him.

Joe owned the name still.


http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 26331.html

Now the other co-founder, Joe Davidson, said he will open another Oklahoma Joe’s in Tulsa in 2015, as well as two restaurants in Washington, D.C. He also wants to open a facility in the Tulsa area so he can ship his Oklahoma Joe’s barbecue throughout the U.S.

The Stehneys and Davidson opened the first Oklahoma Joe's restaurant in January 1996 in Stillwater, Okla. The Kansas City, Kan., location, in a gas station at 3002 W. 47th Ave., opened in August that year.

Davidson sold his Oklahoma Joe’s Smoker Co. to W.C. Bradley Co. in the late 1990s and relocated to Texas. Without an owner/operator onsite, the partners decided to close the Oklahoma restaurant, and the Stehneys became sole owners of the restaurant in Kansas City, Kan.

The Stehneys later opened restaurants in Leawood and Olathe.



...

As for Davidson, he moved back to Oklahoma in 2000. He opened an Oklahoma Joe’s restaurant in Broken Arrow, Okla., in 2011, and another in the Cain’s Ballroom in Tulsa in 2012.

The Kansas and Oklahoma restaurants also have slightly different menus to serve their regions. For example, the Kansas restaurants serve smoked ham, while the Oklahoma operations serve hot links and barbecue bologna.



“While we come from the same tree we have slightly different variations in our recipes,” Jeff Stehney said. “But it became apparent that while I own the Kansas restaurants I don’t own all the rights. The value of my brand could get diluted.”

So three years ago the Stehneys and Davidson sat down and worked out agreement going forward.

The Kansas restaurants would change their name within five years.

Davidson could go ahead with his plan to take Oklahoma Joe’s nationwide, as long he did not open Oklahoma Joe’s restaurants in Kansas or on the Missouri side of the Kansas City metro until 2021.

“We do want to grow but Jeff said he was really content being in Kansas City,” Davidson said. “He is a dear friend and a great steward of the brand and has grown the brand. But I told Jeff, ‘This is something I own. You don’t have a brand to sell.’ And everyone deserves an opportunity to own their own business.”



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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby Imarealperson » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:28 am

beautyfromashes wrote:A lot of people complaining about the name having no following or that it's dumb need to remember that only a few years ago a BBQ restaurant was opened with an even worse name and became a huge hit...Q39. A name doesn't really matter. If the food is good, service polite and quick and a good atmosphere, it will be wildly popular.


How are people ever going to find the Q39 location on Antioch? What a disaster.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby taxi » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:46 am

If it's not too late, they should just name it Okie County ISIS Haüs.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby SWFan » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am

Imarealperson wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:A lot of people complaining about the name having no following or that it's dumb need to remember that only a few years ago a BBQ restaurant was opened with an even worse name and became a huge hit...Q39. A name doesn't really matter. If the food is good, service polite and quick and a good atmosphere, it will be wildly popular.


How are people ever going to find the Q39 location on Antioch? What a disaster.


I work across the street from it. The building basically sits right smack in the middle of the economic center of the metro area, bounded by Corp Woods on one side and a whole slew of corp office buildings on the east side. I'm pretty sure it will be easily found.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby beautyfromashes » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:52 am

^ Pretty sure it was a facetious question. It will be found for sure.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby WSPanic » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:55 am

Imarealperson wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:A lot of people complaining about the name having no following or that it's dumb need to remember that only a few years ago a BBQ restaurant was opened with an even worse name and became a huge hit...Q39. A name doesn't really matter. If the food is good, service polite and quick and a good atmosphere, it will be wildly popular.


How are people ever going to find the Q39 location on Antioch? What a disaster.


Sarcasm? It's really hard to tell anymore.

The building has been a BBQ restaurant for 30+ years. I think they'll be fine.


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