P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28617
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:49 am

That's what cityscene is saying

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28617
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:56 pm

4pm today opening....they are sit down service right? No reservation system?

User avatar
wahoowa
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 2:57 pm
Location: CBD

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by wahoowa » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:30 pm

i volunteered myself as tribute for the board and went in tonight to scout it out. i'm not a joe's fanboy by any means, but this is pretty awesome. i would 1000% rather go here than any actual joe's location. highlights:

1. space is huge. feels a lot bigger than it did under the GB configuration. and plenty of room between tables.
2. food is good. the menu says "burnt ends (when available)" on the left hand side when listing meat options, but my waitress said they would always have the burnt ends. the fries and burnt ends are certifiably joe's fries and burnt ends. absolutely no mistaking them for anything else. both are damn good. the sauce weirdly is the one thing i thought wasn't quite the same. but i think their sauce sucks so i don't typically reach for it anyway. maybe i was mistaken there. fans of the NOLD sauce will be disappointed to learn that it was not out on the table as an option. i don't know if you can request it. wifey got the burnt end barbacoa tacos. also pretty good. sandwich + 1 side is $11; burnt ends add $2. fries weren't as stupidly huge as an order at joe's, but i'm still stuffed. three very gratuitously filled tacos and a side of those beans and a couple veggies (i think?) was $11.
3. the "we aren't gonna serve craft beer" branding is largely overblown. they do have a lot of the crap macro beers. but they had boulevard wheat, tank 7, and a deschutes IPA on tap. and i saw dale's pale ale on the bottle list. i think they hyped this because they perceived that it's consistent with the rest of their "ice house" marketing. beers were about $5-6.
4. now that snow and co is gone from the crossroads, mr. kansas city joe is apparently moving in to corner the alcoholic icee market downtown. there are four options to choose from.
5. service was pretty quick. most of the tables in the bar area had someone sitting at them. the dining area wasn't as full. but there was a good crowd. i would probably still avoid it during the B12 rush though.
6. it's straight up a sports bar. number of tvs is somewhere between johnny's and bar louie, but the layout makes it work really well. good sight lines (unlike bar louie).
7. no reservations, but waitress noted that she expected them to start taking them because the demand will probably be there.

ULCajun
Pad site
Pad site
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:17 pm

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by ULCajun » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:20 am

Thanks for the write up. Seems pretty generic and safe like most things in the district, but I think it will do well and would probably stop there out of anything in the district.

WoodDraw
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1289
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by WoodDraw » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:29 am

I don't think it was meant as an insult

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28617
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:52 am

Generic seems like an insult....and seems strange given its a local BBQ joints food.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28617
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:04 pm

Went for lunch. Great food. Little too much country music for me but easily ignore that for a chicken zman (my already off menu order at other Joe's KC locales.)

They do have NOLD sauce...just ask.

User avatar
GRID
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14274
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by GRID » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:53 pm

Maybe I'm off base here, so I apologize in advance but...

I'm sure it's good for the P&L district, but I don't know. I have never really been a fan of OK Joes, KC joes or whatever it is. It just never seemed like "KC" bbq. I grew up with KC bbq, which generally means an urban kcmo location, often in or near an African American neighborhood and generally made by born and raised KC residents (which also tend to be black). As bad as that sounds, it is what it is and that's KC bbq to me and that's where the good sauce is too. Joe's sauce is just okay. If I want KC bbq without some of that original KC culture and grit, then I'm going to go to Jack's Stack (only the downtown location), which to me is an upscale version of KC bbq. Or maybe Q39 or something.

OK Joes always seemed to me like a place JoCo people go and they like it because it's in the city, but not really "in the city" lol. Something about that place just screams, this is not really KC BBQ. So what if it's in a gas station. Now you combine that with a "Texas" gaudy sports bar/country honky tonk theme then this place wouldn't interest me a bit. The history of KC bbq dining is urban bbq, not country/suburban bbq. Downtown KC is not Plano, TX. Even if the food is good, it sounds like a Famous Dave's on steroids and with the same clientele.

Nah, that's okay. Too many other options.

But it's probably perfect for the P&L district. So good for them.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28617
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:05 pm

I don't disagree. It's safe BBQ....but that doesn't mean it's not good food...and it does fit p&l well...they will print money.

User avatar
GRID
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14274
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by GRID » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:13 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
GRID wrote:Maybe I'm off base here, so I apologize in advance but...

I'm sure it's good for the P&L district, but I don't know. I have never really been a fan of OK Joes, KC joes or whatever it is. It just never seemed like "KC" bbq. I grew up with KC bbq, which generally means an urban kcmo location, often in or near an African American neighborhood and generally made by born and raised KC residents (which also tend to be black). As bad as that sounds, it is what it is and that's KC bbq to me and that's where the good sauce is too. Joe's sauce is just okay. If I want KC bbq without some of that original KC culture and grit, then I'm going to go to Jack's Stack (only the downtown location), which to me is an upscale version of KC bbq. Or maybe Q39 or something.

OK Joes always seemed to me like a place JoCo people go and they like it because it's in the city, but not really "in the city" lol. Something about that place just screams, this is not really KC BBQ. So what if it's in a gas station. Now you combine that with a "Texas" gaudy sports bar/country honky tonk theme then this place wouldn't interest me a bit. KC bbq dining is urban bbq, not country bbq. Downtown KC is not Plano, TX. Even if the food is good, it sounds like a Famous Dave's on steroids and with the same clientele.

Nah, that's okay. Too many other options.

But it's probably perfect for the P&L district. So good for them.
I couldn't disagree more (shocker). The majority of the people I know don't even like Gates, Arthur Bryants etc. Their favorites are Jack Stack, Q39 and Joes by a long shot. I don't think the average BBQ fan or customer, especially tourist are looking for the gritty hole in the wall style BBQ joint. Several are looking for that, but not folks I know or the tourist I see coming downtown.

It's absolutely not a Famous Daves on steroids and they don't have the same clientele because Famous Daves didn't have any clientele. ;)
I think you are agreeing with more more than you think. I do think it will be a huge success for the P&L district for the reasons you mentioned. It's really a perfect fit for the P&L District and its basic demographic of clientele (tourists, suburbanites, people just wanting to have some fun on the weekends etc). But I'm one of the people that do go to Bryants, Gates, LCs etc. And now also go to some of the new places like Q39 and Jacks Stack. Most people "I" know are the same way, but most people I know are born and raised in urban KCMO. I think OK Joes is more popular with the "new to KC" crowd and mostly JoCo. I still think there are plenty of people that like what I would consider "real" KC bbq or there wouldn't be so many places still open.

Anyway, I hope they do well. It will also give downtown residents and workers some decent bbq. (Famous Daves was terrible.). It will do very well and that's good for Downtown KC.

It's not like you could just put a gates or bryants or LCs in the P&L District. That doesn't really work either. I think this place is pretty well thought out for the location and they will do well. It should bring a lot of suburbanites downtown too.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28617
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:23 pm

Tourists for sure want a place like gates and AB. That's why the ok Joe's in a gas station works.....it's a faux version of what they want....

Every tourist I have sent to gates or Bryant's comes back in love.

User avatar
wahoowa
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 2:57 pm
Location: CBD

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by wahoowa » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:34 pm

i 100% agree with the two posts about joe's being safe/sterile/whatever. the only thing i get excited for at joe's is the sweet tea and burnt ends. if there was a MLB style rule 5 draft for bbq establishments i would protect probably 10 other places and let wichita take joe's and not feel bad about it. omaha can have q39 too that's fine. i'm not going to go to this place when i'm craving kc bbq. i'm going to get in a car and leave downtown for that.

having said that, i spend more time than i want to admit in p&L. and even coming from my perspective on the desirability of joe's as opposed to alternatives, county road is 1000000x better than famous dave's. it's also way, way better than the baseline p&L restaurant. i think even if we pretend the pure bbq offerings at county road are not on the menu, this place is still better than: gordon biersch, dubliner, mcfaddens, pizza bar, and leinenkugels. there is a TON of extremely low hanging fruit for improvement in p&L from the perspective of "this shit all blurs together and it's pretty boring." this is an objectively massive upgrade even along those lines, and if my opening night experience proves representative, this is easily a top two or three option in p&L.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28617
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:42 pm

This is the perfect place for p&l.

ULCajun
Pad site
Pad site
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:17 pm

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by ULCajun » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:09 pm

Sorry just came back to read the firestorm :P

I don't mean it as an insult. P&L is what it is, its made to appeal to as wide of audience as possible. It shows. I lived in OneLight. If I wanted to get good creative food I didn't eat in the district. But this is a good fit for P&L and I think it will do well. If I still lived there, I think this would be my goto when people came to visit and we had to get something in the district.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28617
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:13 pm

I much prefer gates but a walk to here vs a bus ride to gates....I'll probably do here more often....especially if wanting to have a couple drinks.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4200
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by beautyfromashes » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:09 pm

Do they have a to go window?

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28617
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:15 pm

No

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9011
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by Highlander » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:15 pm

I am a little relieved reading the comments above. While I had high hopes for this place and definitely have my own hierarchy of KC bbq (Joe's would be upper tier for sure but not tops), the Texas Ice House format concerned me. Having been a resident of Texas for much of my adult life, I never really thought the ice house concept was all that great and I certainly put their bbq (albeit high meat quality) on a lower rung than KC bbq. Generally, ice houses do not have wait staff, you order from a counter and carry your food to your table. The meat sits out and gets dried out and the beer is generally served in cans and bottles that customers grab from an ice chest before sitting down...not many droughts available and generally not craft beer. I don't like the vinegary sauces and most do not even serve french fries with bbq. Happy to hear that there is sit down service (nothing is more annoying than paying a lot for a meal and being unable to find a table), the BBQ remains distinctly local flavored and that there will be a host of craft beers on tap (having to drink bud light is a deal killer for me). I could do without another over the top sports bar-ish place though. That said, I'll try it out but it will take a lot to dethrone Jack Stack as my go to place for urban bbq.

chingon
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3409
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:47 pm
Location: South Plaza

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by chingon » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:34 pm

I can’t imagine Bryant’s would be in business if it wasn’t for tourists and “JoCo types” who wanted a little gritty ambience with their third-rate-if-you’re-lucky BBQ. Gates is usually worse but has the Popeyes-of-KC-BBQ market on lock. And the idea that Jack Stack is real KC urban black BBQ is Trumpian.

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9011
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by Highlander » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:45 pm

chingon wrote:I can’t imagine Bryant’s would be in business if it wasn’t for tourists and “JoCo types” who wanted a little gritty ambience with their third-rate-if-you’re-lucky BBQ. Gates is usually worse but has the Popeyes-of-KC-BBQ market on lock. And the idea that Jack Stack is real KC urban black BBQ is Trumpian.
Bryant's is a pilgrimage location for many bbq aficionados across the country. Of course they benefit greatly from tourists. Every time I go there, I run into people from all over the US and it's not uncommon to see international tourists in there as well.

Post Reply