P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

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earthling
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby earthling » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:42 pm

Biz Journal..
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... space.html

The famous Z-Man sandwich will be available only on Sundays, when the Joe's Kansas City restaurants are closed. (Stehney emphasized that County Line Ice House is not a fourth Joe's Kansas City location.


Wonder if it will be indoor pit, outdoor pit or BBQ shipped in from Joe's. Each will impact the outcome of product. Would guess indoor pit, which likely won't have the smoky flavor of Joe's.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby mean » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:03 pm

Seems very much like they are tryharding to pull off "trendy bistro" or whatever when all anybody--tourists and locals--wants is a bbq joint. I don't doubt it will do well enough, but I'm thoroughly confused how it is that anyone thought this was a better idea than a simple downtown Joe's. I guess they felt like the space in question was too "high end" to go putting up those wood panel and corrugated metal walls?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby StrangerThings » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:16 pm

pash wrote:Uh, if it's not called "Joe's", there's absolutely going to be confusion about whether it's really a Joe's.

This new branding and needless conceptualizing seems brain-dead. They're not going to get the huge tourist crowd that a "real Joe's" would have pulled in simply because they ditched the name with all the recognition. Second, if it's a sit-down place rather than counter service, it is not going to have the feel of a "real Joe's" or a classic KC barbecue joint.

They're not going to make nearly as much money as they would have with a "real Joe's": no hype for the tourists who read about it in the HuffPo or whatever, and unless they have an efficient take-out operation to compliment the sit-down service, they're simply not going to serve nearly as many customers as they would have with a traditional counter set-up.

And "popular beers" rather than craft beers? They're going to try to make up all the revenue they left on the table with sales of Bud Light?

I'm not in the restaurant business, and there may be a silver lining here (not swamped, so better for locals), but I'm scratching my head about this one.

(And tacos! You've got to be shitting me!)


Once again, the drawings I've seen will allow zero confusion on the exterior or interior that this is a joes with a alcohol/bar component. There will also be a outdoor walk up service window in addition to sit-down service. There are so many locations downtown to get a "craft" beer that's it's not required at this one location. Get your food to go from the service window, walk to another location and grab your fancy craft beer, than find a nice spot at one of the dozens of public sitting areas to eat.

Taco's are one of the most popular food items in the United States. Why not?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby StrangerThings » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:19 pm

earthling wrote:Biz Journal..
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... space.html

The famous Z-Man sandwich will be available only on Sundays, when the Joe's Kansas City restaurants are closed. (Stehney emphasized that County Line Ice House is not a fourth Joe's Kansas City location.


Wonder if it will be indoor pit, outdoor pit or BBQ shipped in from Joe's. Each will impact the outcome of product. Would guess indoor pit, which likely won't have the smoky flavor of Joe's.


Indoor wood fired pit, vented to the outdoors. Not only have commercial, indoor bbq pits become popular, you can get the same flavor as well. Joe isn't going to allow his products to suffer. Especially considering this could become one of the most popular locations based on the tourist traffic downtown sees.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby DaveKCMO » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:20 pm

mema's serves tacos. so there!

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby StrangerThings » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:20 pm

mean wrote:Seems very much like they are tryharding to pull off "trendy bistro" or whatever when all anybody--tourists and locals--wants is a bbq joint. I don't doubt it will do well enough, but I'm thoroughly confused how it is that anyone thought this was a better idea than a simple downtown Joe's. I guess they felt like the space in question was too "high end" to go putting up those wood panel and corrugated metal walls?


Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:24 pm

Zman only on Sunday? Da fuq?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby earthling » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:27 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
earthling wrote:Biz Journal..
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... space.html

The famous Z-Man sandwich will be available only on Sundays, when the Joe's Kansas City restaurants are closed. (Stehney emphasized that County Line Ice House is not a fourth Joe's Kansas City location.


Wonder if it will be indoor pit, outdoor pit or BBQ shipped in from Joe's. Each will impact the outcome of product. Would guess indoor pit, which likely won't have the smoky flavor of Joe's.


Indoor wood fired pit, vented to the outdoors. Not only have commercial, indoor bbq pits become popular, you can get the same flavor as well.


Will give it benefit of doubt until trying but I haven't met an indoor pit yet that provides smokey flavor of outdoor pits. Ask for Q39 ribs w/out sauce. Zero smoky flavor, depends too much on sauce (I do like their meats in general nevertheless).

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby Imarealperson » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:37 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
mean wrote:Seems very much like they are tryharding to pull off "trendy bistro" or whatever when all anybody--tourists and locals--wants is a bbq joint. I don't doubt it will do well enough, but I'm thoroughly confused how it is that anyone thought this was a better idea than a simple downtown Joe's. I guess they felt like the space in question was too "high end" to go putting up those wood panel and corrugated metal walls?


Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".


Who is Joe?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby mean » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:42 pm

StrangerThings wrote:Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".


Cool story, but that doesn't really address how anyone thought this was a better idea than that.

"I'm tired of giving people what they want, so instead I'm going to give people something vaguely similar but simultaneously entirely different, with a completely different and unfamiliar name, which they may or may not want!" seems like a questionable approach to business.

Above and beyond that, you seem to be having a hard time keeping things straight...

StrangerThings wrote:Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".


StrangerThings wrote:this is a joes


You're already making things confusing, and you're the one claiming there won't be any confusion! It's a Joe's, but it isn't a Joe's, but it is a Joe's because there is Joe's branding, but it isn't a Joe's because he said he wouldn't open any more Joe's, but it is a Joe's because it has Joe's food, but it isn't a Joe's because it isn't called a Joe's, but it is a Joe's because the guy behind Joe's is a partner, but it isn't a Joe's because there's table service, but it is a Joe's but it isn't a Joe's, but it is a Joe's, but it isn't a Joe's, but it is, but it isn't, but it is, but it isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't.

Look, I get it, you're the resident Cordish apologist, but come on. This is stupid, and it is going to confuse people, and it already is confusing people.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby mean » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:57 pm

Imarealperson wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:
mean wrote:Seems very much like they are tryharding to pull off "trendy bistro" or whatever when all anybody--tourists and locals--wants is a bbq joint. I don't doubt it will do well enough, but I'm thoroughly confused how it is that anyone thought this was a better idea than a simple downtown Joe's. I guess they felt like the space in question was too "high end" to go putting up those wood panel and corrugated metal walls?


Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".


Who is Joe?


The guy they bought out ages ago who is now using the Oklahoma Joe's name (and stealing Bourdain quotes about the one in KC in an apparent attempt to confuse people).

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby wahoowa » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:58 pm

i hope rally house p&L gets a bunch of those z man t-shirts but only sells them on sundays to round out the joke

even though CordishGuy is arguably right that the craft beer market is oversaturated in p&L,* it's dumb that they're aggressively flaunting the fact that this is a place to go to get shitty beers. i'm sure they're going to at least have boulevard wheat or kc pilsner (they had one of the radlers out at the picnic today). so i'm guessing they're trying to spin this as "hey look at us we have something for cheaper than it could be!" to get out in front of the fact that food prices will come in higher than most hope for. either that or some powers that be decided it had to find some way to differentiate itself from cleaver and cork. or maybe they're trying to push consumers who turn their noses up at crappy beer to buy cocktails, but that doesn't sound particularly on brand based on what we know so far.


* - i'm not so sure about this. saucer/yardhouse obviously yes, but neither are "in" the live district. brgr has some good cans and a couple seasonal taps but it's not in the live district either.

inside the district itself, with access to the courtyard, there's no great craft beer option. johnny's has some craft ish options but their taps always taste stale/bad. mcfaddens has fewer options but seems to be a half step up in terms of line maintenance. leinenkugel's should have been the spot, but it reeks so terribly of stale spilled summer shandy/sunset wheat that i can't bring myself to drink even the handful of decent beers they have (none of which of course are made by leinenkugel's, which is garbage). dubliner's beer list is a shit show. so unless pizza bar is this hidden gem i'm forgetting (i know it's not) or you're heading upstairs, the only real competition among the food places in the live district is cleaver and cork.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby Imarealperson » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:17 pm

I'm sure people thought opening a restaurant in a gas station next to a run down strip mall made no sense either. I bet it'll end up just fine.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:19 pm

Just offer zman every day. That's just a silly decision to not doing that.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby pash » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:48 pm

.
Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:52 pm

Sit in a hotel while visitors ask you where to get BBQ. This place will be packed.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby StrangerThings » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:55 pm

mean wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".


Cool story, but that doesn't really address how anyone thought this was a better idea than that.

"I'm tired of giving people what they want, so instead I'm going to give people something vaguely similar but simultaneously entirely different, with a completely different and unfamiliar name, which they may or may not want!" seems like a questionable approach to business.

Above and beyond that, you seem to be having a hard time keeping things straight...

StrangerThings wrote:Joe has stated over and over again he is DONE opening more "Joe's".


StrangerThings wrote:this is a joes


You're already making things confusing, and you're the one claiming there won't be any confusion! It's a Joe's, but it isn't a Joe's, but it is a Joe's because there is Joe's branding, but it isn't a Joe's because he said he wouldn't open any more Joe's, but it is a Joe's because it has Joe's food, but it isn't a Joe's because it isn't called a Joe's, but it is a Joe's because the guy behind Joe's is a partner, but it isn't a Joe's because there's table service, but it is a Joe's but it isn't a Joe's, but it is a Joe's, but it isn't a Joe's, but it is, but it isn't, but it is, but it isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't, is, isn't.

Look, I get it, you're the resident Cordish apologist, but come on. This is stupid, and it is going to confuse people, and it already is confusing people.


My lord, are we just arguing for the fun of it? I think it's obvious what I'm trying to say, but I don't have time to explain in terms understandable to all people, especially ones who are combative and argumentative. JEFF (I'm not a history buff on the evolution of JOE'S BBQ) has said he doesn't want to open anymore restaurants that are JUST "JOES". Maybe he's bored, maybe he doesn't want Joe's to become too must like a franchise you see on every corner which can cause the brand to loose some authenticity? I'm not sure, Jeff and I don't kick it at BBQ festivals while drinking non-craft beer, so you'll have to ask him.

This is a NEW concept, that features Joe's BBQ. It is NOT in name "JOE"S BBQ".

If it's confusing to people, big deal, they'll figure it out. It won't be confusing to the tourist market, the big 12 customers, the concert goers or anyone else who can use a smartphone to search for nearby restaurants. It won't be confusing to anyone who walks by and can see the Joe's logo, granted smaller and underneath the County Line title.

The bottom line is, regardless of this mystical confusion you speak of, this is probably the best restaurant addition to the P&L district in years, if not ever. Now, that's my opinion, so by all means feel free to rip that apart too.

As for calling me a "cordish apologist", I can just go back to reading and not commenting like I did for years before speaking up. I see questions that I have answers to and try to offer some insight.

Congratulations on fitting the most "joes" into a single paragraph by the way.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby StrangerThings » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:59 pm

KCPowercat wrote:Sit in a hotel while visitors ask you where to get BBQ. This place will be packed.


I agree. It will be one of, if not the busiest restaurants in the district.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:02 pm

Feels like they are doing char bar honestly.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Postby beautyfromashes » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:11 pm

Better than GB!


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