P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby LenexatoKCMO » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:59 am

About everytime I try to go to the one on 39th they have more wait then I am willing to put up with, so I would think the core could support two. 

But I think Cordish would be smart to concentrate on filling all of the street level restaurant spaces before they try and stick someone up off the second floor medical building lobby space. 

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby KCMax » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:01 am

LenexatoKCMO wrote:About everytime I try to go to the one on 39th they have more wait then I am willing to put up with, so I would think the core could support two. 

But I think Cordish would be smart to concentrate on filling all of the street level restaurant spaces before they try and stick someone up off the second floor medical building lobby space. 


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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby shinatoo » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:04 am

Lees summit location was the same problem. Busy shopping center but tucked back in a corner that no one really knew was there.
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby KC-wildcat » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:23 am

trailerkid wrote:Jazz Louisiana Kitchen sucks, but people seem to like it so I'd take it in P+L.


I disagree.  But, I'm also not from the Louisiana. 

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby bobbyhawks » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:34 am

When people are in from out of town or from the suburbs, I don't know that the first type of meal they consider is pricey homestyle.  Those are the types of places that only exist by word of mouth anyway, so it wasn't conducive to walk-in traffic on many levels (no pun intended).

In Japan, it is quite common to have multiple restaurants stacked 4 or 5 stories tall.  The key is having a greeter on the street and a menu pedistal where people can come by to essentially window shop.  I did not get the feel that Peachtree was ever really trying to sell itself to this end.  My ultimate ideal for this location would be a private room karaoke bar/snack place (in the Southeast Asian traditional sense), but it would be nice if the Peachtree's departure at least paved the way for a name chef to come in.  In the cajun vein, Emeril comes to mind (though he is only in markets by the sea and casinos).  I agree that Cordish should try to fill the corner space next to the Sprint Center and the old Ted's locations first.

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby mean » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:53 am

The view from the old Peachtree is imo the best in P&L. But for the awful lobby / staircase, it would be a prime spot. Rather see something more upscale than Jazz, although something like that in the old Ted's spot would be alright.
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby FangKC » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:54 pm

Peachtree would probably have done better in that old corner restaurant space in the Argyle Building--assuming it was renovated. The rent would have been less than P&L, and many people in the government complex would have gone there. And if the food was good, concierges in hotels would have told guests about it.

I'm assuming that the rent in P&L was too much for them to handle given their volume.

Other appropriate spaces might have been the Daddy's gay bar space on Main, the old lobby space in Gate City Bank on Grand, the ground floor of 1006 Grand, the ground floor of the Midland Theater office building, or the former Tanner's Bar space on Broadway and W. 10th.

Another idea would have been to have Peachtree in the old Muehlebach Hotel restaurant space instead of a hotel-run restaurant.

One of the advantages of older buildings is the rents are often cheaper.

But I totally understand Cordish wanting to have a then-popular local restaurant in the P&L District serving a style of food that wasn't competing with their other tenants.

Didn't they fall behind on their rent in the Jazz District too?

The only concern I have is that the Peachtree experience might put off other local restaurants from expanding downtown.

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby LenexatoKCMO » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:01 pm

If Peachtree does resurrect again somewhere, I think the formula is obvious.  Everyone seems to like the food; they just need to take it a bit more casual and lower prices a bit.  I think there is a pretty finite number of folks looking for sould food in the $15-20 a plate range, served in a fancy, formal setting.  Ditch the table cloths and go more down-homey, cut the price a tad and people will line up.  Also takes the pressure off the service expectations - big difference in what you expect when you are paying $17 for your dinner and what you expect when you are paying $12-13. 

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby FangKC » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:14 pm

Maybe they should just go back to the buffet.

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby trailerkid » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:11 pm

LenexatoKCMO wrote:If Peachtree does resurrect again somewhere, I think the formula is obvious.  Everyone seems to like the food; they just need to take it a bit more casual and lower prices a bit.  I think there is a pretty finite number of folks looking for sould food in the $15-20 a plate range, served in a fancy, formal setting.  Ditch the table cloths and go more down-homey, cut the price a tad and people will line up.  Also takes the pressure off the service expectations - big difference in what you expect when you are paying $17 for your dinner and what you expect when you are paying $12-13.  


Was there really a paucity of people willing to pay $15-$20 to eat soul food in a quasi sophisticated setting-- often with live music?  Aren't Macaroni Grill, Bravo, and Cheesecake Factory $15-20? I'd argue there are a lot of people looking for something exactly like Peachtree. Well-prepared, unpretentious food in a full-service, classier restaurant environment. If you think about the thousands of black, middle class Kansas Citians looking for a night out on the town and overall lack of places going after the demo...it makes even more sense for Peachtree to succeed. I can imagine a lot of tourists would go there based on word-of-mouth and wanting to try something local within the District. The product just didn't meet the consumer's expectations and they failed. If they executed the concept with proper customer service...it'd work. Let's remember the concept did manage to last almost 10 years. I wonder if Blanc will be around that around.

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby LenexatoKCMO » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:29 pm

trailerkid wrote:Was there really a paucity of people willing to pay $15-$20 to eat soul food in a quasi sophisticated setting-- often with live music?  Aren't Macaroni Grill, Bravo, and Cheesecake Factory $15-20? I'd argue there are a lot of people looking for something exactly like Peachtree. Well-prepared, unpretentious food in a full-service, classier restaurant environment. If you think about the thousands of black, middle class Kansas Citians looking for a night out on the town and overall lack of places going after the demo...it makes even more sense for Peachtree to succeed. I can imagine a lot of tourists would go there based on word-of-mouth and wanting to try something local within the District. The product just didn't meet the consumer's expectations and they failed. If they executed the concept with proper customer service...it'd work. Let's remember the concept did manage to last almost 10 years. I wonder if Blanc will be around that around.


First, I went there around a half dozen times and never once saw any live music - just an empty piano; If you are expecting people to pay a premium for live entertainment, it better actually be there more than once in a blue moon.

Second, since when has KC ever had a black middle class in any sort of numbers;

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby trailerkid » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:42 pm

LenexatoKCMO wrote:First, I went there around a half dozen times and never once saw any live music - just an empty piano; If you are expecting people to pay a premium for live entertainment, it better actually be there more than once in a blue moon.

Second, since when has KC ever had a black middle class in any sort of numbers;



$15-20 is paying a premium? I'd say that's average to below average for dinner almost anywhere with any modicum of decency. Because you never saw music there means it doesn't exist...obviously.

I'm not even going to touch your other statement.

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby LenexatoKCMO » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:51 pm

trailerkid wrote:$15-20 is paying a premium?


We are talking about homestyle soul food.  Fried catfish, Fried Chicken, macaroni and cheese.  Yes that is pretty premium.  I am not saying under the right circumstances someone couldn't pull those prices off - but you are putting yourself into a much narrower margin for error. 

trailerkid wrote:Because you never saw music there means it doesn't exist...obviously.


0-6 is a pretty poor average - especially if it is reflected in what you are paying. 

trailerkid wrote:I'm not even going to touch your other statement.


Is there something controversial there?  KC's African American community is still shockingly segregated both physically and economically and I am far from the first to lament the fact that we have an extremely sparse and scattered black middle class in this town.  Why do you react like I am revealing some sort of secret?

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby trailerkid » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:55 pm

LenexatoKCMO wrote: Is there something controversial there?  KC's African American community is still shockingly segregated both physically and economically and I am far from the first to lament the fact that we have an extremely sparse and scattered black middle class in this town.  Why do you react like I am revealing some sort of secret?


There is a black, middle class in KC that spends money at restaurants and bars. There are thousands in this demographic. That's all I'm saying. I'm not sure how you're finding a bone to pick with this fact.

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:49 pm

LenexatoKCMO wrote:I am far from the first to lament the fact that we have an extremely sparse and scattered black middle class in this town.


I will have to agree with TK on this subject (sorry TK, I know we don't agree often).  The KC metro area does have a scattered black middle class but that does not mean it is extremely sparse nor even sparse.  It just means that the area doesn't have an area defined as a "black middle class neighborhood" easily described as say Red Bridge or Brookside.
It will be interesting what the latest census shows.
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby FangKC » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:16 pm

I think the black middle class is centered around Eastwood Trafficway going west.

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby grovester » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:17 pm

the middle class is everywhere, the east side goes block by block.

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby KCMax » Tue May 24, 2011 4:22 pm

Chophouse is opening up an outdoor cigar lounge at its P&L location

http://economy.kansascity.com/?q=node/10887
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby nilsson1941 » Tue May 24, 2011 4:51 pm

KCMax wrote:Chophouse is opening up an outdoor cigar lounge at its P&L location

http://economy.kansascity.com/?q=node/10887


So douchey, but perfect for the men-of-a-certain-age crowd who are going to the Tom Waits concert at the midland or the Clapton concert at the SC.

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Main Site Proposal

Postby chrizow » Tue May 24, 2011 5:02 pm

nilsson1941 wrote:So douchey, but perfect for the men-of-a-certain-age crowd who are going to the Tom Waits concert at the midland or the Clapton concert at the SC.


hmm, i think your Waits crowd is more likely to be pounding whiskey shots at Zoo Bar than puffing a cigar at the P+L...


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