P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

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shinatoo
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby shinatoo » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:54 am

earthling wrote:KC has an obsession with oversized sprawling restaurants. On the E Coast, many restaurants are smaller than the BK space if maybe only a few tables and probably often has 3X traffic.

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Downtown KC really needs to grasp the walk-up counter with near zero seating where patrons use public seating. The BK spot has outdoor seating of its own as well as public seating in the center of block.
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So your business plan for these burger joints is no revenue during the cold and rainy months?
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby earthling » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:21 am

Counter places with almost no seating do fine during winter on E Coast and other Midwest cities. It's different in an urban setting and it's something downtown KC restaurant owners have yet to adjust to, who come from running/working mega suburban pad site restaurants. But there are some, like places in City Market and a few others. The BK space would be considered an above avg sized spot in older urban cities.

Downtown (and Plaza) could use a lot more walkup counter places integrated with the street, especially along streetcar line.
Last edited by earthling on Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby Riverite » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:31 am

I concur, I am often looking for a place to grab something I can walk with. Not all of us have time to sit down and order from a server.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:31 am

Agreed

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby earthling » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:55 am

Downtown used to have a lot of small 'eat it and beat it' places during the Golden Years, like Lil' Jakes BBQ. Still common in older urban cities, it's part of the pedestrian sidewalk fabric (though foodie trucks have offset it a bit). KC needs to embrace that again as pedestrian traffic improves.

But the BK site in P&L is plenty large enough for a Shake Shack with a decent amount of seating. I was surprised to see that most restaurant sites in P&L were suburban sized rather than more like that BK site. It's high rent overhead during slow periods. Next time a large restaurant site dies in P&L, they should cut it in half and make 2 restaurant sites - more manageable rent for operators and more choices for patrons.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby yeliab » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:52 am

Wow, Chefburger... I used to work at one of their businesses and I'm pretty sure I heard accusations of wage/tip theft from people working there. It was years ago but iirc the accusations were that the business would take tips and pay them out weekly or biweekly in their paychecks, and people were realizing that the tip outs were coming up short. They collected tips this way at my job too, but our shit was overpriced so we didn't make much in tips, and I was young/dumb so I'm not sure I would have noticed. All I will say is that in my experience working for that group, the tips weren't being collected/allocated and the paychecks weren't being written by the investor mother.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby WoodDraw » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:07 pm

Wasn't chef burger the place with boozy milkshakes too?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:20 pm

yup

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby beautyfromashes » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:48 pm

Makes me remember some of the other tenants from when we started. Remember Fran's?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby scooterj » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:54 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:Makes me remember some of the other tenants from when we started. Remember Fran's?



I was thinking about them just a couple of days ago. The food wasn't spectacular and it was pricey, but it was nice having a 24-hour food option other than Town Topic.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby mean » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:43 pm

The hours were really all Fran's had going for it. The food was edible after a night of boozing.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby Highlander » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:59 pm

mean wrote:The hours were really all Fran's had going for it. The food was edible after a night of boozing.


It was a modern day Nichols. Ate their once. Incredible indifference by the service staff. Watched our waiter totally ignore us while he chatted up several waitresses. Took him forever to get to us, food came out cold, never asked how anything was, waited forever for the check. He acted pissed at us for interrupting his conversations. The place had maybe 4 other occupied tables while we were there. The food was ok (albeit cold) but the service convinced me that one visit was enough.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby WoodDraw » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:29 pm

I know I'm in the minority, but I actually like this area. I hope something better can go in than bk. Count me in on the need for "food to walk with" group. Also a 24/7 place, even with average food.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby FangKC » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:36 am

The lack of walk-up counter-type takeout restaurants was one of the biggest complaints I had when I lived downtown. I got really spoiled living in New York City, when I hardly ever cooked at home.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby flyingember » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:59 am

FangKC wrote:The lack of walk-up counter-type takeout restaurants was one of the biggest complaints I had when I lived downtown. I got really spoiled living in New York City, when I hardly ever cooked at home.

There's plenty of old space in a lot of buildings to do this today. I imagine this is something we'll see more of with more workers coming downtown.

HyVee does this model in their stores and it doesn't take a lot of space. It really depends on how much variety you offer to eat. I picture a space with a 10x10 walk in, a cleanup area, oven, grill/stovetop, a little prep counter, soda fountain and a register with under and over storage. That's only a few hundred square feet or space.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby beautyfromashes » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:38 am

Do you think Cordish would give me cheap rent for the 14th and Walnut ‘ticket booth’ they never use? I think I could turn that into a fairly good lunch sandwich business.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby moderne » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:39 am

Back in the day in DT KCK there was a tiny space called "Art's Seven Stool Cafe."

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby StrangerThings » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:46 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:Do you think Cordish would give me cheap rent for the 14th and Walnut ‘ticket booth’ they never use? I think I could turn that into a fairly good lunch sandwich business.


Not much need for a ticket booth when you only do free shows. However, since starting to do more and more ticketed events, that ticket booth will be used sooner than later.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby StrangerThings » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:51 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:Yes, Chef Burger. I remember that his mom investor got fired, right?, and he had to sell Pizza Bella and close the burger place. Had 1924 Main too which became The Reiger. Had a good thing going all around. I wonder where he is now.

I remember Chef Burger having the walk up window that was brought up a couple posts up and did good business at the beginning. I think this town really wants to support local businesses. Put a Local Pig burger spot there and watch the crowd roll in. It seems they are starting to move this direction with P&L, but Cordish needs to quit trying to overthink some of their choices for tenants. Perhaps, they are just now starting to understand the market as referenced by the KC Joes restaurant and we'll see a move away from national retreads.


Cordish wants a good mix of local and national. Tourists often don't want local and sometimes will hit up a familiar spot unfortunately. Cordish has been seeking out local groups for years with moderate success. They've been in contact with the owner of Joes for years trying to get him on board. Bringing along the Back Napkin group really helped there. Just like BRGR, Cordish reached out to them to begin the conversations.

I'd love to have a 24/7 spot but a "burger" joint is the last thing the district needs. You can get a burger at damn near every restaurant. I reached out to the local McDonalds franchise owner because I know a McDonalds would kill in the BK spot. The issue with BK has always been management. It would be cool to have a walk up window, much like the new Country Road location is going to have.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Main Site Proposal

Postby wahoowa » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:12 pm

BK should just be a quiktrip without the gas station


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