P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
pash
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby pash » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:20 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

earthling
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby earthling » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:01 pm

Is there even a solid Three Light rendering? Hoping for something _entirely_ different. Two Light looks rather utilitarian.

mean
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby mean » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:33 pm

Not like it's my favorite building ever, but it's fine. I don't get the whinging. If the choice is between adding a buttload of residents and economic activity but having kinda boring buildings because it saves money, or adding no residents and economic activity because a developer can't make the numbers work because they listened to a bunch of nerds on the internet, I'll take the residents every time.

pash
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby pash » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:46 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

flyingember
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby flyingember » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:57 pm

Text doesn't show emotion. If you want to make a joke with text you have to be an absolutely outstanding writer.
And no one here, myself included, writes that well.
So yes, you have to make actual effort to make a joke.

Maybe try being less pessimistic. You know what matters more than all those things? People being able to make a living so they and their family can have food on the table and a place to live.

Logically, the city needs to do exactly what results in this. It's why we have the cerner bannister campus, because to all but about 100 people having a job they can afford to have matters more than being a perfect project.

Yes, the people that can get better aren't but I really don't blame them. I want to stop getting 75% of jobs from recruiters being so far away I hate the commute.

This is precisely why Trump was elected, because he said he was good at bringing jobs. He was going to fix health care so it isn't a financial drain. He was going to build things and make blue collar jobs. And why is his ratings so low? Not because other presidents were better at politics, but because he's done everything except what he said he was going to do. He got bogged down in lies and excuses and has done nothing.

So when someone whines about the materials on a tower that's the last thing to complain about. Things like will it create more jobs in central KC so people aren't driving super far and wasting time and money are much more important. Things like bike lanes are about amenities for people, not paint on the street. More retail isn't the end goal, it's about creating a community that supports itself.

We need to create a city that makes people not want to vote conservative but vote for change, because it makes their lives better.

And if the materials of a few buildings have to suffer to get there, so be it.

You know how we get to the point we can demand better? its called supply and demand. If people will fill the buildings and locate on streets without certain amenities why do they need to be built.

In other words, the hot downtown market needs to cool a lot. The 5000 units need to sit empty for longer so property owners start to demand change, not just residents.

pash
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby pash » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:59 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mean
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby mean » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:08 pm

pash wrote:Nobody listens to nerds on the Internet whining about architecture, or about poor urban design, or about a lack of bike lanes. We know that. I know that. That's not the point. The point is that is that it's fucking shitty, and I'ma call it motherfucking shitty. Period. The end. Full motherfucking stop.


It's shitty that government is such a slow-moving bitch that it's amazing when anything ever gets done, or it's shitty that nobody listens to people whining on the internet?

earthling
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby earthling » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:26 pm

StrangerThings wrote:The few people here that always bitch about the glass, or the design.... have any of you toured one light? Two light? People live on the inside and don't spend much time staring at the exterior of the place they're paying to rent.


I haven't but they sound like top notch luxury, which is great. The exterior of Two looks plain jane utilitarian though and hopefully the next one wont as much (ideally completely different).

So if there is an opportunity to influence developers to improve, nothing should be said? Let's promote raising the bar instead of settling for bland. There's enough momentum now to start encouraging better and better. But sure, understood that 'better' is subjective. If no one cares what major additions to skyline look like, developers will go as basic as they can get away with. KC has a reputation for being content with the sub-par (many posters here also very content with meh) and developers will take advantage of that.

flyingember
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby flyingember » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:58 pm

We can encourage better and better and it's coming. But not in the outside design. it's on the people scale amenities.

The #1 and 2 items that sell a home are the kitchen and bathroom. Looking apartment specific #3 would be in house amenities and #4 ease of access and security.

The giant retail space on the corner and the shared parking is a sign they're listening where it matters.

So if you're a developer looking for higher rates, where do you put your money?

earthling
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby earthling » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:01 pm

Agree that amenities should be higher priority than aesthetics, but aesthetics shouldn't be ignored either. There is now enough momentum to promote better aesthetics too. Some developers will go as basic/utilitarian as they can if no one cares.

flyingember
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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby flyingember » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:23 pm

earthling wrote:Agree that amenities should be higher priority than aesthetics, but aesthetics shouldn't be ignored either. There is now enough momentum to promote better aesthetics too. Some developers will go as basic/utilitarian as they can if no one cares.

I think it's not about caring, I think it's about the rental rates. It's more a function of being a lower value market for a developer overall.

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Re: P&L District: 14th & Baltimore site proposal

Postby horizons82 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:14 pm

earthling wrote:I haven't but they sound like top notch luxury, which is great. The exterior of Two looks plain jane utilitarian though and hopefully the next one wont as much (ideally completely different).


How is Two Light utilitartian? Utilitarian would be a 4-story building with (2) 5x3' windows/unit on a flat EIFS box. You may not like it but it's far from utilitarian.

earthling wrote:So if there is an opportunity to influence developers to improve, nothing should be said? Let's promote raising the bar instead of settling for bland. There's enough momentum now to start encouraging better and better. But sure, understood that 'better' is subjective. If no one cares what major additions to skyline look like, developers will go as basic as they can get away with. KC has a reputation for being content with the sub-par (many posters here also very content with meh) and developers will take advantage of that.


You are right that the public has more sway in development than they realize. But it's a power that's only in numbers or attention. That's why developers worry about Neighborhood associations, but they could give a rat's ass if you or I dislike it. Even then, a large group may not be enough to overpower developer campaign contributions. (See midtown QT)

That said, it's not as if every developer is a soulless penny pincher, probably only 60% of them :lol:. Two things that suck up a lot of your budget are code compliancy and parking. Want more money for exterior aesthetics and quality urbanism? Get your costs down on those two items. Since codes, you know, save you from dying in a fire, that really only leaves parking. So focus on negating the need for it: transit, density, and eliminating parking minimums citywide.

Once you get that done, start raising hell on banal facades.


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