Fixing p&l traffic backups

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StrangerThings
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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby StrangerThings » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:00 pm

kas1 wrote:I live in a big city with plenty of construction in tight spaces and it almost never disrupts the streets or the sidewalks. It's not a good problem to have.


If you can come up with a better option to place a crane capable of building a 25-30 floor high rise, do tell so we can all get rich.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby kas1 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:26 pm

horizons82 wrote:Have any examples of this no-disruption construction?


Here's archived Street View imagery of a 15 story building under construction on a corner: https://www.google.com.ar/maps/@-34.583 ... 6656?hl=en

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby kas1 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:29 pm

StrangerThings wrote:If you can come up with a better option to place a crane capable of building a 25-30 floor high rise, do tell so we can all get rich.


You don't need to block the sidewalks and a driving lane of two different streets in order to install a single crane.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:38 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Observing tonight, the main problem is the one kc place garage.


which has a redundant entrance on baltimore! easy fix!


I haven't witnessed this problem alot as I'm not usually in that area at those times....but this seems like it would be a well known problem that has been going on for years with an easy solution you just stated....who is the hold up to resolving it?

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby kas1 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:41 pm

kas1 wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:If you can come up with a better option to place a crane capable of building a 25-30 floor high rise, do tell so we can all get rich.


You don't need to block the sidewalks and a driving lane of two different streets in order to install a single crane.


And for that matter, cranes can be installed within the footprint of a building itself: https://www.google.com.ar/maps/@40.7532 ... 6656?hl=en

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby horizons82 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:47 pm

kas1 wrote: Here's archived Street View imagery of a 15 story building under construction on a corner: https://www.google.com.ar/maps/@-34.583 ... 6656?hl=en


Buenos Aires is not remotely comparable to the US in terms of building code and OSHA requirements. Show me a project in Nashville, Chicago, etc, and I'm all ears. Otherwise you're talking about an overhaul of state and federal safety regs, good luck with that...

kas1 wrote: And for that matter, cranes can be installed within the footprint of a building itself: https://www.google.com.ar/maps/@40.7532 ... 6656?hl=en


Now this is more possible, but as you can see they're still taking over sidewalk and street space.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby StrangerThings » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:51 pm

kas1 wrote:
kas1 wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:If you can come up with a better option to place a crane capable of building a 25-30 floor high rise, do tell so we can all get rich.


You don't need to block the sidewalks and a driving lane of two different streets in order to install a single crane.


And for that matter, cranes can be installed within the footprint of a building itself: https://www.google.com.ar/maps/@40.7532 ... 6656?hl=en


If the building design allows it. Kind of hard to stick a crane inside a concrete structure with concrete slabs on each floor. It’s Truman after all, we’re not talking about a main road. Something worth having is rarely convenient.

Not sure what you’re talking about as for the two different streets thing.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:08 pm

horizons82 wrote:
kas1 wrote: Here's archived Street View imagery of a 15 story building under construction on a corner: https://www.google.com.ar/maps/@-34.583 ... 6656?hl=en


Buenos Aires is not remotely comparable to the US in terms of building code and OSHA requirements. Show me a project in Nashville, Chicago, etc, and I'm all ears. Otherwise you're talking about an overhaul of state and federal safety regs, good luck with that...

kas1 wrote: And for that matter, cranes can be installed within the footprint of a building itself: https://www.google.com.ar/maps/@40.7532 ... 6656?hl=en


Now this is more possible, but as you can see they're still taking over sidewalk and street space.


I'm guessing there are 20 buildings "3 light" size right now being built in New York and I'd wager none of them block sidewalks or lanes of traffic.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:11 pm

StrangerThings wrote: Something worth having is rarely convenient.


LOL, oh goodness....Cordish's decisions aren't above reproach. They don't need lanes of traffic to build a 15 story building.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby StrangerThings » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:40 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
StrangerThings wrote: Something worth having is rarely convenient.


LOL, oh goodness....Cordish's decisions aren't above reproach. They don't need lanes of traffic to build a 15 story building.


That comment applies to damn near everything in life. I find it comical we are freaking complaining about the inconveniences and side effects of urban development that was much needed. “I want a bustling vibrant downtown but I don’t dare be inconvenienced!”

The crane for One Light was placed on the sidewalk and they kept out of walnut as much as possible. Two Lights crane took up one lane of traffic on Truman. Same will happen for 3,4 etc.

It’s as if the construction closures are causing traffic nightmares and people to be late to work. Give me a break.

Let’s talk about realities, like figuring out the operational traffic on event nights, because that’s a real discussion worth having and a issue that’s not going away anytime soon.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby StrangerThings » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:47 pm

And, I’ve been to NYC, Chicago and L.A. all within the last 18 months as part of research for these residential towers. All those cities have street and or lane closures around active construction sites.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:57 pm

Demanding better out of our quality of life...yes even during construction...isn't comical. It should be our standard that every construction project respects the already existing environment. If a company doesn't respect that lets get someone in here that does.

I just got back from New York and walked through numerous construction site of buildings 3 times the size of two light...and didnt have to cross the street due to closed sidewalks...it's not hard.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:58 pm

I agree the event traffic is the main cause...but all of this feeds into the problem. People coming down for events having less options of getting to their destination pushes them onto main.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby StrangerThings » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:10 pm

We can’t expect a developer to spend an additional 3-5 million dollars just to keep a single lane of traffic open on secondary road. Not to mention safety is a serious topic. It all goes hand in hand, the streetcar isn’t a reality without the popularity and resurgence of downtown. Downtown wouldn’t be what it is now without the streetcar. I’m sure people were losing their minds during the streetcar line construction, I know it frustrated me, but I didn’t complain as I get it.

Those sites you’re referencing were likely on larger build sites. I don’t see how in the world you can build Two Light safely without closing down a few sidewalks. Not to mention, needing to cross the street to use the other side of the sidewalk isn’t much of a inconvenience. What are we talking, an additional 35 seconds of your day?

The only street that’s shut down for a AEG event is Grand between 13th and Truman. Inconveniencing drivers is fine with me if it keeps pedestrians from being hit by a car.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:18 pm

In this discussion might be helpful to try disconnecting the cause of the closure with whom is doing it. The who isn't important.

Closing sidewalks might not be a big deal to you and me as far as effort to avoid it but sidewalks aren't just for able bodied people...and nobody in this city can do a sidewalk closure appropriately (signage, protections, ramps) without citizens pestering the city codes enforcement to go back and fix the problems.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:28 pm

And yes this is a great.problem to have....amazing to even be discussing when I think back to when I moved down here over a decade ago.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby kas1 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:37 pm

horizons82 wrote:
kas1 wrote: Here's archived Street View imagery of a 15 story building under construction on a corner: https://www.google.com.ar/maps/@-34.583 ... 6656?hl=en


Buenos Aires is not remotely comparable to the US in terms of building code and OSHA requirements. Show me a project in Nashville, Chicago, etc, and I'm all ears. Otherwise you're talking about an overhaul of state and federal safety regs, good luck with that...

kas1 wrote: And for that matter, cranes can be installed within the footprint of a building itself: https://www.google.com.ar/maps/@40.7532 ... 6656?hl=en


Now this is more possible, but as you can see they're still taking over sidewalk and street space.


I'm speaking more broadly than just this one project. I've lurked here a long time and seen countless complaints about sidewalks being closed for years at a time for simple projects such as building renovations. It seems clear to me that Kansas City lacks either the desire or the institutional know-how to minimize the effects of construction on the public ROW. The example I posted from NY is a larger building than Two Light yet it intrudes no more into the public ROW than Two Light does despite part of the intrusion into the street being used for pedestrian circulation. If it didn't provide space for pedestrians, as Two Light doesn't, then it would clearly intrude less. But contractors in Kansas City won't ever have any incentive to improve if the attitude from the public is that it's just part of life.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:45 pm

Exactly.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby horizons82 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:49 pm

Kas1, you know there's already an ordinance for maintaining pedestrian access moving forward, right? Two light was grandfathered out but with three light they'll have to maintain access. I'm glad that ordinance is there, like KCPowercat said, accessibility is important.

Two light could not be built like that tower in NYC, as StrangerThings said. If you want a smaller construction perimeter like that, you need to attack parking needs in the city, not construction of towers. I get that you're not talking about Two Light specifically; but for any structure that needs a poured concrete base, the same crane condition is going to occur for structural and safety reasons 9 out of 10 times. Should it go on the N/S streets instead of Truman? Truman has more capacity to sacrifice.

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Re: Fixing p&l traffic backups

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:08 pm

that ordinance to maintain pedestrian access is still on a big learning curve....report it anytime you see it not occurring.


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