Six Light

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
earthling
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4533
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by earthling » Wed May 09, 2018 12:11 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
earthling wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:

As much complaining I see on here about a Cordish wall, I would assume the pushback of making 4 light 35+ would be an epic fail.
35+ floors would be great as long as the building looks completely different. The Monotonous Codish Wall is not because it's Cordish, it's because every building looks about the same. Do each building with completely different looks/external materials. It's as simple as that.
I know some people on here think that way. Finish each building with different exterior finishes etc, I wish you could watch every professional designer and architect cringe when that detail is mentioned. Subtlety goes a long way in good hi-rise design when building multiple buildings in one overall project. To finish each building in completely different external materials or change the design radically from one to the other goes against pretty much every decent thing they’ve been taught. Every time you see a grandiose building with unique exterior designs, it’s a singular project and is meant to stick out.... not blend with other sister buildings.

I just had lunch last week with our lead architect and brought this up again. I was schooled, politely of course. I thought I got it before, but I really do now.
Doesn't have to be grandiose, just different. Can use a similar design/building materials from another Cordish project in another city. I think what you mean to say is that Cordish/architects can get away with monotony so makes no effort to mix things up, despite city help and among highest rents in city. Not the only thing Cordish is taking advantage of. If you don't see it, you're being played or drinking the koolaid.

WoodDraw
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1289
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by WoodDraw » Wed May 09, 2018 12:58 pm

Just don't bs about it being about some architecture vision. It's like driving through some McMansion hell where every house looks the same and the developer saying that's to create a thematic experience. We're not idiots.

User avatar
TheLastGentleman
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by TheLastGentleman » Wed May 09, 2018 2:18 pm

StrangerThings wrote:They want the glass to be the same on all buildings as if it were one huge building.
How is that good?

User avatar
normalthings
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1080
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by normalthings » Wed May 09, 2018 2:18 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
WoodDraw wrote:Just don't bs about it being about some architecture vision. It's like driving through some McMansion hell where every house looks the same and the developer saying that's to create a thematic experience. We're not idiots.
A home builder building out copy and paste suburbs is not comparable to a developer and architect working on hi-rise projects. For one, we design the buildings from the ground up. A suburban home builder bought plans from someone and doesn’t give a crap about anything besides selling homes. Probably why you have people leaving the burbs for urban living situations.

It is about the overall design. Why do you think they put in the expense of designing all buildings at once in regards to the exteriors? Sure, they change slightly but the developer and others involved want to see the overall vision.

Like I said, find me a single multi-building hirise development anywhere in the world where the buildings are drastically or marketably different on the exterior? Maybe all the worlds architects have a secret ban to piss us off.... or maybe they’re the pros? I’m still learning myself.
Example: Magellan's Lake Shore East

While the towers of Hudson yards are all uniquely designed, the use of the same/similar materials on all the towers makes it look like one big blob. I get that's probably what the architects want to achieve, I am just not sure that's what they should be wanting? I guess I just don't find it attractive, but to each their own.

User avatar
TheLastGentleman
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by TheLastGentleman » Wed May 09, 2018 2:27 pm

Riverside Boulevard NYC

Image

User avatar
normalthings
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1080
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by normalthings » Wed May 09, 2018 3:08 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
TheLastGentleman wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:They want the glass to be the same on all buildings as if it were one huge building.
How is that good?
Well, how is wanting sister buildings to look like sisters possible if you don’t share the most commonly used portion of the exterior? Sure, you can change the shape and footprint, but you don’t want 4 sisters looking like mommy slept with 4 different daddy’s.

I don’t know folks, I didn’t go to school to be an architect. Anyone on here an architect? That would provide some insight. They seem to be paid very well and good at what they do.
The Last Gent is one IIRC.

chingon
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3409
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:47 pm
Location: South Plaza

Re: Six Light

Post by chingon » Wed May 09, 2018 3:15 pm

Good God.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4200
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Six Light

Post by beautyfromashes » Wed May 09, 2018 3:18 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
I don’t know folks, I didn’t go to school to be an architect. Anyone on here an architect? That would provide some insight. They seem to be paid very well and good at what they do.
Who is the Cordish architect firm, BTW?

User avatar
wahoowa
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 2:57 pm
Location: CBD

Re: Six Light

Post by wahoowa » Wed May 09, 2018 3:20 pm

pivoting only slightly from this latest revelation: i would subscribe to a TLG thread recommending architecture books, as my reading queue is drying up

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4200
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Six Light

Post by beautyfromashes » Wed May 09, 2018 3:30 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
Hord- Coplan - Macht
Looked briefly at their online portfolio. I don’t see any tall residential buildings in major cities. Mostly, landscaping, schools, hospital interiors, sprawling retirement homes, etc. What examples do they have of urban development towers and why did Cordish choose them for the Lights?
Last edited by beautyfromashes on Wed May 09, 2018 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
normalthings
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1080
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by normalthings » Wed May 09, 2018 3:34 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
chingon wrote:Good God.
It will never end!!!!!
Very True

User avatar
normalthings
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1080
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by normalthings » Wed May 09, 2018 3:37 pm

StrangerThings wrote:With ALL of this said, don’t expect 5 or 6 light to look even remotely similar to 1-4.
This sounds like a good thing. Not sure where one of these would even end up going in at though. Also, I heard that after 3 Light, Cordish may take a break from building KC Towers. Is that true?

User avatar
TheLastGentleman
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by TheLastGentleman » Wed May 09, 2018 3:41 pm

Good urbanism requires variation. That's part of why housing project "commieblocks" were met with so much resistance, and why people go to such lengths to keep modern buildings from replacing historic (ie more interesting) buildings. Developments can have unifying elements without looking too identical. Coincidentally, the power and light district itself is a brilliant example of this. While its architecture isn't exactly my cup of tea, the variety in materials and massing is very respectable, and it fits into the city seamlessly. Also, look at the 80s towers. Town Pavilion, 1KCP and 1201 Walnut were all developed at nearly the same time by the same developer, but look distinct. Dispite that, they still compliment each other by the use of bold colors, glass walls, and iconic silhouettes.

Ditto with the Pendergast Pyrimids. They are each a similarly intimidating form of art deco and made of limestone and concrete, but each interprets the style differently. For instance, the JC Courthouse and City Hall are clearly sister buildings, but the former has far more intricate grillwork while the latter is more steamlined. It's little things like that which create interesting cityscapes. You'll notice that cities considered among the most beautiful tend to be made up mostly of buildings from roughly the same style and time period, but with variation between individual buildings. Places like Paris, Prague, Budapest, Rome, ect. They have ancient/contemporary landmarks, sure, but in between is a lot of this

Image

....and people seem to like it that way.

moderne
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4015
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:50 pm
Location: downtown

Re: Six Light

Post by moderne » Wed May 09, 2018 3:44 pm

The most enduring and desirable of all residential high rise towers in KC are nearly identical triplets. But they do vary slightly in orientation and ornamentation. That is the Walnuts.

User avatar
TheLastGentleman
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by TheLastGentleman » Wed May 09, 2018 3:45 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
chingon wrote:Good God.
It will never end!!!!!
I'm just glad this forum is talking architecture! :wink:

User avatar
TheLastGentleman
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by TheLastGentleman » Wed May 09, 2018 4:04 pm

StrangerThings wrote:TLG— great post and insight. It’s easy and common to criticize a design as it’s being rolled out. That’s not ever going to change but how to you personally think the “lights” will hold up over time? Say in 20-30 years?
Thanks!

There are loads of buildings in the past that were hated when they were built but have become beloved landmarks over time. The Eiffel Tower famously only exists because the government allowed the designer to keep it up after the worlds fair ended and live in it until the agreement expired about 20 years later. When they went to finally tear it down the public outcry convinced them to leave it be. The city had come to love it!

As for the Lights, I doubt they'll ever be recognized for having much architectural merit. It's all pretty standard stuff. Their legacy will all depend on how downtown itself continues. If KC keeps building, they could become respected for being early examples of downtown's resurrection. If this all peters out, god forbid, they may end up being seen as acts of hubris and their design may get scrutinized more closely, especially because of their prominence and the fact they have convenient labels. Easy targets.

User avatar
TheLastGentleman
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by TheLastGentleman » Wed May 09, 2018 4:09 pm

wahoowa wrote:pivoting only slightly from this latest revelation: i would subscribe to a TLG thread recommending architecture books, as my reading queue is drying up
That's an idea! KCRag Book Club anyone?

earthling
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4533
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by earthling » Wed May 09, 2018 7:55 pm

ldai_phs wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:
chingon wrote:Good God.
It will never end!!!!!
Very True
And it shouldn't as it's a valid complaint. Many say KC has an interesting unique skyline given the variation. Four+ bland buildings about the same creating a monotone wall detracts from that, worth trying to prevent if possible. Cordish can get economies of scale of windows using from projects in other cities.

As far as only 5% complaining about it, is plausible only about 5% of metro even knows there are more Lights planned.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 16561
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Six Light

Post by DaveKCMO » Wed May 09, 2018 7:58 pm

I like the "Light" wall. I know it's trendy to trash it.

earthling
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4533
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Six Light

Post by earthling » Wed May 09, 2018 8:03 pm

It's not built yet. Why take the chance...

Post Reply