KCRag Forum

City Manager just mentioned that it's being discussed.

You're kidding? Haha... wow

Well then lets start constructing 3 and 4 already...

Did he misspeak and mean to say Five Light? May as well create the Seven Light thread at this rate

what is the location?

Please, Cordish, work with Copaken Brooks and put one on the block north of the Basketball Experience. Would go a long way toward filling in the ever-more obvious gap between buildings around Main/Grand and the government district.

Critical_Mass wrote:Did he misspeak and mean to say Five Light? May as well create the Seven Light thread at this rate

no. he deliberately said "One, Two, Three, Four, Five, and Six Light"... twice.

KCTOGA wrote:what is the location?

didn't ask, but there are plenty to choose from! my guess is any of the sites that didn't make the cut for the convention hotel (at least three, right?).

I hate to burst everyone's bubble but there is no way the KC economy can sustain this demand. There is so much supply coming online that the bubble is ripe to explode. Lenders have to, if not already, be getting nervous about this market in general. Especially since the jobs haven't quite followed the residential. I suppose if 5 and 6 light are hotel/office then perhaps but no way it could all be residential unless six light is breaking ground in 20 years.

hartliss wrote:I hate to burst everyone's bubble but there is no way the KC economy can sustain this demand. There is so much supply coming online that the bubble is ripe to explode.

the only way to know that for sure is to build it. they'll probably know enough by the time four light is leased. at least they will have a site chosen?

DaveKCMO wrote:

hartliss wrote:I hate to burst everyone's bubble but there is no way the KC economy can sustain this demand. There is so much supply coming online that the bubble is ripe to explode.

the only way to know that for sure is to build it. they'll probably know enough by the time four light is leased. at least they will have a site chosen?

Yea but most lenders (especially in KC!) don't operate under the "build it and see" approach.

hartliss wrote:

DaveKCMO wrote:

hartliss wrote:I hate to burst everyone's bubble but there is no way the KC economy can sustain this demand. There is so much supply coming online that the bubble is ripe to explode.

the only way to know that for sure is to build it. they'll probably know enough by the time four light is leased. at least they will have a site chosen?

Yea but most lenders (especially in KC!) don't operate under the "build it and see" approach.

that's not what i'm saying. if demand exists to fill Four Light, then that bodes well for financing Five and Six.

DaveKCMO wrote:

hartliss wrote:

DaveKCMO wrote:
the only way to know that for sure is to build it. they'll probably know enough by the time four light is leased. at least they will have a site chosen?

Yea but most lenders (especially in KC!) don't operate under the "build it and see" approach.

that's not what i'm saying. if demand exists to fill Four Light, then that bodes well for financing Five and Six.

Agree completely. The last time DT had this much discussion around "numerically" named towers only one came to fruition (One KC place). Like most on this forum i would love for this to happen but a lot remains to be seen.

I agree, if there were enough of a demand for five and six light, three's ground level would be getting poured and four's parking lot would be getting prepped as we speak.

mister816 wrote:I agree, if there were enough of a demand for five and six light, three's ground level would be getting poured and four's parking lot would be getting prepped as we speak.

They already said three would break ground before two is finished.

You might not be too far off. Depends on all the basics like financing and construction company availability.

The potential of four/five/six lights is great but what downtown needs are other big ticket hirise residential developers that can be pulling off new hirise projects in parallel instead of Cordish squatting on lots in serial mode. There are still hirise office to residential conversions in progress (original P&L, Commerce Bank) so might take a while depending on rate of leases for buildings just now going online.

In the meantime the City/downtown orgs should be pursuing more big ticket national developers and get the word out that there is demand for downtown housing with free streetcar and lower demand for needing dedicated parking spaces.

One thing of value is Cordish is playing ball with the various urban friendly design aspects. They so far largely don't have blank faces at street level, they're including retail, they have public parking included and so on.

They're also coming with these additional projects after the abatement max was lowered. That's a good sign the lower number isn't hugely impacting.

And most importantly, they're able to fund the projects. It has to be annoying to make all the effort for a new project, make the concessions and a developer can't finance it and the whole thing falls apart. A place that wants to build more and we know can get financing is a huge deal.

I know that Cordish is a development company. Is there any possibility that they would transition to a construction company as well. Building 6+ high rise buildings over the course of a decade could allow them to save some money by bringing construction in house. They could purchase the tower crain, but equipment and hire workers directly. this would save the overhead of contracting.

StrangerThings wrote:Why bring in other developers when you've got a good working relationship with Cordish? Not to mention, It would be a slap in the face to essentially seek out other developers when only a few like Cordish were willing to buy in to the original downtown revitalization idea. "Hey Cordish, invest millions with us to help turn around downtown so we can ultimately bring in competition to you guys."

Would think the obvious response would be that the more the merrier. Cordish got their incentives. Which is better for more hirise residential... the rate Cordish is going with 1 building about every 2+ years or having 3-4 developers doing 3-4 hirises total rotating every 2+ years. There are other big ticket developers out there than Cordish with deeper pockets or other financing mechanisms. And downtown has oodles of empty lots. The massive lots around 7th/Baltimore would a good starting place to point outside developers with deep pockets or great financing mechanisms, especially given KC has hit over $2/sqft mark and has a free streetcar that ties downtown together.

Yeah, "buy in" is not the term I would use to describe the Cordish position during the original P&L negotiations.