Six Light

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
earthling
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Re: Six Light

Postby earthling » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:31 pm

StrangerThings wrote:Why bring in other developers when you've got a good working relationship with Cordish? Not to mention, It would be a slap in the face to essentially seek out other developers when only a few like Cordish were willing to buy in to the original downtown revitalization idea. "Hey Cordish, invest millions with us to help turn around downtown so we can ultimately bring in competition to you guys."


Would think the obvious response would be that the more the merrier. Cordish got their incentives. Which is better for more hirise residential... the rate Cordish is going with 1 building about every 2+ years or having 3-4 developers doing 3-4 hirises total rotating every 2+ years. There are other big ticket developers out there than Cordish with deeper pockets or other financing mechanisms. And downtown has oodles of empty lots. The massive lots around 7th/Baltimore would a good starting place to point outside developers with deep pockets or great financing mechanisms, especially given KC has hit over $2/sqft mark and has a free streetcar that ties downtown together.

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grovester
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Re: Six Light

Postby grovester » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:06 pm

Yeah, "buy in" is not the term I would use to describe the Cordish position during the original P&L negotiations.

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Bill Durban
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Re: Six Light

Postby Bill Durban » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:15 pm

What's the purpose in Cordish throwing out Fives and Sixes whenever they aren't yet willing to give details about Three and Four? Are they just trying to get the locals to salivate?

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Re: Six Light

Postby UrbanKC » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:59 pm

Bill Durban wrote:What's the purpose in Cordish throwing out Fives and Sixes whenever they aren't yet willing to give details about Three and Four? Are they just trying to get the locals to salivate?


Probably all in negotiations with the city, and discussing market, funding, land ownership, other deals etc...

Things don't really have to be "public" until the initial planning and development submittal. Then, whatever is on the plans is public. But they don't have to voluntarily release any information.

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Re: Six Light

Postby DaveKCMO » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:56 pm

one would hope that since Five and Six are probably not part of the original development agreement that the city could negotiate better terms?

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Bill Durban
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Re: Six Light

Postby Bill Durban » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:48 pm

UrbanKC wrote:Things don't really have to be "public" until the initial planning and development submittal. Then, whatever is on the plans is public. But they don't have to voluntarily release any information.


So I guess we could assume then that both Three and Four Light are pretty much a done deal since they are now looking at development beyond.

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Re: Six Light

Postby flyingember » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:54 pm

Bill Durban wrote:
UrbanKC wrote:Things don't really have to be "public" until the initial planning and development submittal. Then, whatever is on the plans is public. But they don't have to voluntarily release any information.


So I guess we could assume then that both Three and Four Light are pretty much a done deal since they are now looking at development beyond.

For Three they already announced ground breaking before Two is finished. We don't have to assume on that one.

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Re: Six Light

Postby earthling » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:27 pm

And supposedly 4 will be targeted as a hotel/residential combo. Would think they'd want an operator or flag identified before committing.

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Re: Six Light

Postby flyingember » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:00 pm

earthling wrote:And supposedly 4 will be targeted as a hotel/residential combo. Would think they'd want an operator or flag identified before committing.

If a hotel, who says they haven't? There's a lot of companies that want to control announcements.

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Re: Six Light

Postby StrangerThings » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:56 pm

earthling wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:Why bring in other developers when you've got a good working relationship with Cordish? Not to mention, It would be a slap in the face to essentially seek out other developers when only a few like Cordish were willing to buy in to the original downtown revitalization idea. "Hey Cordish, invest millions with us to help turn around downtown so we can ultimately bring in competition to you guys."


Would think the obvious response would be that the more the merrier. Cordish got their incentives. Which is better for more hirise residential... the rate Cordish is going with 1 building about every 2+ years or having 3-4 developers doing 3-4 hirises total rotating every 2+ years. There are other big ticket developers out there than Cordish with deeper pockets or other financing mechanisms. And downtown has oodles of empty lots. The massive lots around 7th/Baltimore would a good starting place to point outside developers with deep pockets or great financing mechanisms, especially given KC has hit over $2/sqft mark and has a free streetcar that ties downtown together.


I think unless Cordish stops spending money, seeking out other developers is a dick move. Cordish will have nearly a billion dollars invested in downtown by 2020. Other developers won't likely be nearly as invested either. Cordish builds and stays, they don't do quick flips to turn a fast profit. If other developers want to come in and build towers, by all means bring it on... I just think the city seeking them out is bad business.

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Re: Six Light

Postby StrangerThings » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:59 pm

grovester wrote:Yeah, "buy in" is not the term I would use to describe the Cordish position during the original P&L negotiations.



I don't remember any other developers willing to throw in a few hundred million dollars and actually be able to follow through. Congrats to Cordish for being good negotiators, blame the city for making the deal they did. They've learned their lesson now.

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Re: Six Light

Postby StrangerThings » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:02 pm

flyingember wrote:
earthling wrote:And supposedly 4 will be targeted as a hotel/residential combo. Would think they'd want an operator or flag identified before committing.

If a hotel, who says they haven't? There's a lot of companies that want to control announcements.



Hotel portion will either be a "W" brand or possibly a "live lofts" concept.

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grovester
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Re: Six Light

Postby grovester » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:05 pm

I would venture that had other developers know the kind of deal KC was willing to make, there might have been other suitors. I don't fault Cordish for being business people, but I don't buy any hint of altruism or urban heroism.

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Re: Six Light

Postby StrangerThings » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:25 pm

grovester wrote:I would venture that had other developers know the kind of deal KC was willing to make, there might have been other suitors. I don't fault Cordish for being business people, but I don't buy any hint of altruism or urban heroism.



Even though that's literally what they do? Every city they go into is in desperate need of help to turn around their downtown areas. Obviously they are in the business of making money, but I've sat and talked to David Cordish for hours and he sincerely cares and enjoys turning around communities.

Other developers could have negotiated the same deal, but they didn't.

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Re: Six Light

Postby geeman68 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:58 pm

It would be great if they offered to develop the "north loop" section.

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Re: Six Light

Postby KCTOGA » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:00 pm

Cordish deserves a lot of credit. After transforming A homeless area, just rite stamp CO. & little else after 6pm. Doubt to many companies were interested or would be sticking around and have this much of a vested interest as they do.

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Re: Six Light

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:51 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
grovester wrote:Yeah, "buy in" is not the term I would use to describe the Cordish position during the original P&L negotiations.



I don't remember any other developers willing to throw in a few hundred million dollars and actually be able to follow through. Congrats to Cordish for being good negotiators, blame the city for making the deal they did. They've learned their lesson now.


Yes Cordish deserves credit for coming to the table at the beginning, nobody is saying any different. Nothing wrong with wanting more developers downtown...especially ones that might not put big white "X LIGHT" on top of each building. Variety is the spice of life.

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grovester
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Re: Six Light

Postby grovester » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:59 pm

Back on point, diversification is always a sound strategy. If not for the streetcar, I think the perceived "success" of the P&L would still be up for debate.

StrangerThings
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Re: Six Light

Postby StrangerThings » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:24 am

grovester wrote:Back on point, diversification is always a sound strategy. If not for the streetcar, I think the perceived "success" of the P&L would still be up for debate.


You're trying to imply that the streetcar is what dictates "success"? It all goes hand in hand, the sprint center wouldn't have happened without the PNL district. The PNL district wouldn't have happened without the sprint center. The street car wouldn't have happened without both the Sprint Center and PNL.

The PNL district is a huge success, just because the city made a bad deal doesn't mean the district isn't winning. You have bars like Johhnys doing 4 million dollars a year. Hundreds of people employed and over a billion dollars invested by multiple companies downtown due to Cordish and the city. I'd call that a success.

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grovester
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Re: Six Light

Postby grovester » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:28 am

Hey Buddy, I'm happy that the P&L is there, it jump started downtown revitalization. I don't think the city owes anything to Cordish.

It was just a transaction.


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