Five Light

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
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Re: Five Light

Post by DaveKCMO » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:09 pm

UrbanKC wrote:I honestly could care less about what more towers means for our skyline or our appearance.
some guy in 1929 about the P&L tower: "you can't build that concrete monstrosity! you'll detract from the our beautiful brick skyline!"

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Re: Five Light

Post by UrbanKC » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:55 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
UrbanKC wrote:I honestly could care less about what more towers means for our skyline or our appearance.
some guy in 1929 about the P&L tower: "you can't build that concrete monstrosity! you'll detract from the our beautiful brick skyline!"
Haha, true... Basically what I meant by that, it is doesn't matter to me how tall something is. I prefer to have a higher unit/room count versus height if there is a choice. Density is what gives a place its life, not height. So if it is cheaper and more do-able for a developer to build an 18 story building with 300 units than it is for them to build a 25 story building with 300 units. I'm all for it. Especially if said decision nets them more money to do another similar building.

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Re: Five Light

Post by Chris Stritzel » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:12 pm

An ideal "Five Light" Building should be around 30 floors and taller than the H&R Block Building. It should also have to have a iconic design, not some box like Cordish is currently building. Also, instead of making the Building only a hotel or residential and or both, make it a Office Building, downtown Kc I am sure will need a new Office Building soon..

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Re: Five Light

Post by DaveKCMO » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:57 pm

Chris Stritzel wrote:An ideal "Five Light" Building should be around 30 floors and taller than the H&R Block Building. It should also have to have a iconic design, not some box like Cordish is currently building. Also, instead of making the Building only a hotel or residential and or both, make it a Office Building, downtown Kc I am sure will need a new Office Building soon..
maybe cordish is hiring?

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Re: Five Light

Post by Chris Stritzel » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:03 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
Chris Stritzel wrote:An ideal "Five Light" Building should be around 30 floors and taller than the H&R Block Building. It should also have to have a iconic design, not some box like Cordish is currently building. Also, instead of making the Building only a hotel or residential and or both, make it a Office Building, downtown Kc I am sure will need a new Office Building soon..
maybe cordish is hiring?
I would gladly work for them but they don't have a office in St. Louis. Maybe I can send them my ideas.

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Re: Five Light

Post by earthling » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:06 pm

See this thread. Downtown Class A vacancy is has been improving to about 14%, when it hits below 12% it may draw more speculative construction, maybe....

http://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=20102

CBRE says 14% for Class A as of Q4/2016. Colliers' report should come out soon, which tracks more buildings.

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Re: Five Light

Post by Chris Stritzel » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:04 pm

What was the 2nd H&R Building supposed to look like? If anyone has seen it, that could be how the 5 Light Building will look.

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Re: Five Light

Post by KCLover » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:45 pm

I thought I remember reading somewhere that H&R #2 was supposed to be around 10 stories. I don't ever remember seeing any sort of rendering though.

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Re: Five Light

Post by KCFan » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:58 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
ldai_phs wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:

Correct sorry, should have clarified. The intent and the very early stages of planning I can 100% confirm. I guess no one can really predict if it will get built unless you've got the ability to predict the future market/economy.
Could you share any details about 3 or 4 light?
Still working on the financing for three light but they want to break ground before Two Light opens.

I've not heard much about four light but the hotel combo or hotel only is looking to be a realistic option as Cordish has recently gotten into the hotel business in conjunction with some of the casino properties.
I'd still love to see a casino downtown especially in conjunction with the convention center. I think it would make KC a much bigger draw for convention business. I know Missouri law won't allow for casinos except on the river, but I wish they would allow one to locate wherever it could best be utilized. Let someone buy one of the existing casino licenses out to move it downtown.

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Re: Five Light

Post by GRID » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:11 pm

KCFan wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:
ldai_phs wrote:
Could you share any details about 3 or 4 light?
Still working on the financing for three light but they want to break ground before Two Light opens.

I've not heard much about four light but the hotel combo or hotel only is looking to be a realistic option as Cordish has recently gotten into the hotel business in conjunction with some of the casino properties.
I'd still love to see a casino downtown especially in conjunction with the convention center. I think it would make KC a much bigger draw for convention business. I know Missouri law won't allow for casinos except on the river, but I wish they would allow one to locate wherever it could best be utilized. Let someone buy one of the existing casino licenses out to move it downtown.
No way. Casinos absolutely suck. Have you been to a downtown area that has casinos? Detroit, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore? Where the casinos are happen to be the most depressing areas of the downtowns. They do nothing for the vibrancy of the city, actually they hurt it. I guess it's better than a vacant parking lot, but keep them away from the core of the city. Tear down the Isle of Crap and put up a decent casino there, but keep them away from the core of downtown. They do nothing but suck the life out of cities.

This Five Light project is very interesting. That really validates that Cordish is moving ahead with three and four lights. Need to get that W hotel mixed use tower up.

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Re: Five Light

Post by DaveKCMO » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:18 pm

just connect streetcar to a renovated isle of capri (new owner!) and prevent that whole thing from happening in our neighborhoods.

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Re: Five Light

Post by KCTOGA » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:24 pm

Yes...Streetcar to The Isle would be wonderful. Develop that riverfront with restaurants !!!!

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Re: Five Light

Post by kboish » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:42 pm

If streetcar runs to Isle of Capri, I'd be willing to bet that the Isle gets fully redeveloped with a hotel.

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Re: Five Light

Post by DaveKCMO » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:54 pm

kboish wrote:If streetcar runs to Isle of Capri, I'd be willing to bet that the Isle gets fully redeveloped with a hotel.
they're the only KC casino without one!

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Re: Five Light

Post by KCLover » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:02 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
kboish wrote:If streetcar runs to Isle of Capri, I'd be willing to bet that the Isle gets fully redeveloped with a hotel.
they're the only KC casino without one!
Hollywood Casino doesn't have a hotel element either, although part of the deal is they are supposed to add one.

How does St Louis have a casino in their downtown area if the law says they have to be "on water" or built into a holding pond? Must be some loophole.

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Re: Five Light

Post by Chris Stritzel » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:17 pm

GRID wrote: No way. Casinos absolutely suck. Have you been to a downtown area that has casinos? Detroit, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore? Where the casinos are happen to be the most depressing areas of the downtowns. They do nothing for the vibrancy of the city, actually they hurt it.
In response to the St. Louis hit. The Lumiere Place Casino and Hotel on the Riverfront in Downtown STL really screwed us (I'm From STL). They promised to redevelop the North Riverfront and instead of doing so, they said that the ran out of money. So Casinos are very bad for Downtowns because they promise so much and deliver less than they promised.

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Re: Five Light

Post by Chris Stritzel » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:18 pm

KCLover wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:
kboish wrote:If streetcar runs to Isle of Capri, I'd be willing to bet that the Isle gets fully redeveloped with a hotel.
they're the only KC casino without one!
Hollywood Casino doesn't have a hotel element either, although part of the deal is they are supposed to add one.

How does St Louis have a casino in their downtown area if the law says they have to be "on water" or built into a holding pond? Must be some loophole.
The Riverfront. Lumiere Place- The Biggest Scam for Downtown STL.

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Re: Five Light

Post by GRID » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:42 pm

Chris Stritzel wrote:
GRID wrote: No way. Casinos absolutely suck. Have you been to a downtown area that has casinos? Detroit, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore? Where the casinos are happen to be the most depressing areas of the downtowns. They do nothing for the vibrancy of the city, actually they hurt it.
In response to the St. Louis hit. The Lumiere Place Casino and Hotel on the Riverfront in Downtown STL really screwed us (I'm From STL). They promised to redevelop the North Riverfront and instead of doing so, they said that the ran out of money. So Casinos are very bad for Downtowns because they promise so much and deliver less than they promised.
Why would a casino want to develop beyond their property? They have zero interest in doing that. Casinos are 100% self sustained properties with big walls and no windows for a reason. Urban casinos are nothing but huge dead zones that kill vibrancy for many blocks around. The hotel tower has no interaction with the street. Everybody drives to them and parks in their huge garages and you never ever see them. They are inside the casino property. The casino is designed to keep people inside those walls. The only people outside them are the very low income people that find enough money to take a bus to a casino to throw away that money or the occasional tourist walking from a nearby hotel. Not to mention casinos in general are just tacky and ugly.

Downtown KC has come way too far for it to even think about putting a casino down there. Having said that, it would be nice to at least improve the one that is "close" to downtown. I wouldn't run the streetcar to it though. The casino cruiser bus is fine. The streetcar needs to cross the river and run to downtown NKC, not to the casino.

Speaking of StL, what ever happened to the bottle district? I don't think it was tied to Lumiere Place. I was there recently and the north side along the river just north of downtown is gentrifying nicely. Slowly, but it's happening at least.

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Re: Five Light

Post by DaveKCMO » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:56 pm

GRID wrote:The streetcar needs to cross the river and run to downtown NKC, not to the casino.
NKC isn't interested, so that isn't go anywhere for the time being.

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Re: Five Light

Post by Chris Stritzel » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:04 pm

GRID wrote:
Chris Stritzel wrote:
GRID wrote: No way. Casinos absolutely suck. Have you been to a downtown area that has casinos? Detroit, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore? Where the casinos are happen to be the most depressing areas of the downtowns. They do nothing for the vibrancy of the city, actually they hurt it.
In response to the St. Louis hit. The Lumiere Place Casino and Hotel on the Riverfront in Downtown STL really screwed us (I'm From STL). They promised to redevelop the North Riverfront and instead of doing so, they said that the ran out of money. So Casinos are very bad for Downtowns because they promise so much and deliver less than they promised.
Why would a casino want to develop beyond their property? They have zero interest in doing that. Casinos are 100% self sustained properties with big walls and no windows for a reason. Urban casinos are nothing but huge dead zones that kill vibrancy for many blocks around. The hotel tower has no interaction with the street. Everybody drives to them and parks in their huge garages and you never ever see them. They are inside the casino property. The casino is designed to keep people inside those walls. The only people outside them are the very low income people that find enough money to take a bus to a casino to throw away that money or the occasional tourist walking from a nearby hotel. Not to mention casinos in general are just tacky and ugly...

Speaking of StL, what ever happened to the bottle district? I don't think it was tied to Lumiere Place. I was there recently and the north side along the river just north of downtown is gentrifying nicely. Slowly, but it's happening at least.
The Bottle District died because of the 2008 Stock Crash and it was never brought back to life. The Lumiere thing though was a project called Lumiere Phase 2. It was supposed to be like Ballpark Village and the Bottle District but much smaller. The Riverfront though is slowly coming back but plans to fully redevelop it have come and gone.
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