Five Light

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Five Light

Postby DaveKCMO » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:54 pm

kboish wrote:If streetcar runs to Isle of Capri, I'd be willing to bet that the Isle gets fully redeveloped with a hotel.


they're the only KC casino without one!

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Re: Five Light

Postby KCLover » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:02 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
kboish wrote:If streetcar runs to Isle of Capri, I'd be willing to bet that the Isle gets fully redeveloped with a hotel.


they're the only KC casino without one!


Hollywood Casino doesn't have a hotel element either, although part of the deal is they are supposed to add one.

How does St Louis have a casino in their downtown area if the law says they have to be "on water" or built into a holding pond? Must be some loophole.

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Re: Five Light

Postby Chris Stritzel » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:17 pm

GRID wrote:No way. Casinos absolutely suck. Have you been to a downtown area that has casinos? Detroit, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore? Where the casinos are happen to be the most depressing areas of the downtowns. They do nothing for the vibrancy of the city, actually they hurt it.


In response to the St. Louis hit. The Lumiere Place Casino and Hotel on the Riverfront in Downtown STL really screwed us (I'm From STL). They promised to redevelop the North Riverfront and instead of doing so, they said that the ran out of money. So Casinos are very bad for Downtowns because they promise so much and deliver less than they promised.

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Re: Five Light

Postby Chris Stritzel » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:18 pm

KCLover wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:
kboish wrote:If streetcar runs to Isle of Capri, I'd be willing to bet that the Isle gets fully redeveloped with a hotel.


they're the only KC casino without one!


Hollywood Casino doesn't have a hotel element either, although part of the deal is they are supposed to add one.

How does St Louis have a casino in their downtown area if the law says they have to be "on water" or built into a holding pond? Must be some loophole.


The Riverfront. Lumiere Place- The Biggest Scam for Downtown STL.

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Re: Five Light

Postby GRID » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:42 pm

Chris Stritzel wrote:
GRID wrote:No way. Casinos absolutely suck. Have you been to a downtown area that has casinos? Detroit, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore? Where the casinos are happen to be the most depressing areas of the downtowns. They do nothing for the vibrancy of the city, actually they hurt it.


In response to the St. Louis hit. The Lumiere Place Casino and Hotel on the Riverfront in Downtown STL really screwed us (I'm From STL). They promised to redevelop the North Riverfront and instead of doing so, they said that the ran out of money. So Casinos are very bad for Downtowns because they promise so much and deliver less than they promised.


Why would a casino want to develop beyond their property? They have zero interest in doing that. Casinos are 100% self sustained properties with big walls and no windows for a reason. Urban casinos are nothing but huge dead zones that kill vibrancy for many blocks around. The hotel tower has no interaction with the street. Everybody drives to them and parks in their huge garages and you never ever see them. They are inside the casino property. The casino is designed to keep people inside those walls. The only people outside them are the very low income people that find enough money to take a bus to a casino to throw away that money or the occasional tourist walking from a nearby hotel. Not to mention casinos in general are just tacky and ugly.

Downtown KC has come way too far for it to even think about putting a casino down there. Having said that, it would be nice to at least improve the one that is "close" to downtown. I wouldn't run the streetcar to it though. The casino cruiser bus is fine. The streetcar needs to cross the river and run to downtown NKC, not to the casino.

Speaking of StL, what ever happened to the bottle district? I don't think it was tied to Lumiere Place. I was there recently and the north side along the river just north of downtown is gentrifying nicely. Slowly, but it's happening at least.

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Re: Five Light

Postby DaveKCMO » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:56 pm

GRID wrote:The streetcar needs to cross the river and run to downtown NKC, not to the casino.


NKC isn't interested, so that isn't go anywhere for the time being.

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Re: Five Light

Postby Chris Stritzel » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:04 pm

GRID wrote:
Chris Stritzel wrote:
GRID wrote:No way. Casinos absolutely suck. Have you been to a downtown area that has casinos? Detroit, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore? Where the casinos are happen to be the most depressing areas of the downtowns. They do nothing for the vibrancy of the city, actually they hurt it.


In response to the St. Louis hit. The Lumiere Place Casino and Hotel on the Riverfront in Downtown STL really screwed us (I'm From STL). They promised to redevelop the North Riverfront and instead of doing so, they said that the ran out of money. So Casinos are very bad for Downtowns because they promise so much and deliver less than they promised.


Why would a casino want to develop beyond their property? They have zero interest in doing that. Casinos are 100% self sustained properties with big walls and no windows for a reason. Urban casinos are nothing but huge dead zones that kill vibrancy for many blocks around. The hotel tower has no interaction with the street. Everybody drives to them and parks in their huge garages and you never ever see them. They are inside the casino property. The casino is designed to keep people inside those walls. The only people outside them are the very low income people that find enough money to take a bus to a casino to throw away that money or the occasional tourist walking from a nearby hotel. Not to mention casinos in general are just tacky and ugly...

Speaking of StL, what ever happened to the bottle district? I don't think it was tied to Lumiere Place. I was there recently and the north side along the river just north of downtown is gentrifying nicely. Slowly, but it's happening at least.


The Bottle District died because of the 2008 Stock Crash and it was never brought back to life. The Lumiere thing though was a project called Lumiere Phase 2. It was supposed to be like Ballpark Village and the Bottle District but much smaller. The Riverfront though is slowly coming back but plans to fully redevelop it have come and gone.
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Re: Five Light

Postby GRID » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:06 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
GRID wrote:The streetcar needs to cross the river and run to downtown NKC, not to the casino.


NKC isn't interested, so that isn't go anywhere for the time being.


Bummer. I know they are looking at extending to Berkley Park. Hopefully they are doing that with keeping in mind a river crossing in the future. It doesn't make a lot of sense to extend it east of Heart of America Bridge much. Maybe put a stop on the west end of the park so the streetcar can easily cross the river rather heading to the industrial no man's land of the east bottoms.

If NKC doesn't want to be a part of it, KCMO could at least build a transit/pedestrian bridge to Harlem. Then the city would basically open up a whole new area to re-develop opposite the river from the River Market into a large mixed use district. If KCMO gets the streetcar that far, I'm sure NKC would want to see it extended. If not, keep in the city limits and take it up to Briarcliff with a stop at the Downtown Airport.

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Re: Five Light

Postby DaveKCMO » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:16 pm

GRID wrote:I know they are looking at extending to Berkley Park. Hopefully they are doing that with keeping in mind a river crossing in the future.


i can confirm first hand that the riverfront work will not preclude crossing the river.

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Re: Five Light

Postby KCPowercat » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:23 pm

I like this idea....I like this idea even more if isle of Capri pays for that piece of the line out of their own pocket

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Re: Five Light

Postby DaveKCMO » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:27 pm

KCPowercat wrote:I like this idea....I like this idea even more if isle of Capri pays for that piece of the line out of their own pocket


pretty sure that's the only way it will work.

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Re: Five Light

Postby TheBigChuckbowski » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:44 am

DaveKCMO wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:I like this idea....I like this idea even more if isle of Capri pays for that piece of the line out of their own pocket


pretty sure that's the only way it will work.


So, essentially, it would run to the west end of the park unless Isle of Capri pays for a longer line?

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Re: Five Light

Postby flyingember » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:18 am

The streetcar needs 16 feet of clearance.

The Front St bridge is currently 15.5 feet. Is that close enough or is the number 16 feet minimum?
There's also the old underpass that's now a bike trail with plenty of width to add track too as an option.

Rough guess is to get from the west end of the park to Isle of Capri is about $60 million

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Re: Five Light

Postby taxi » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:52 am

Boat in a Moat.
Train in Vain.

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Re: Five Light

Postby ldai_phs » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:39 am

Image
Image

^^^ EL Dorado's Casino Hotel Tower in Reno and Shreveport(El Dorado owns Isle of Capri).
Not really something we would want here.


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