P&L District 10 years later

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KCPowercat
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P&L District 10 years later

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:59 am

Well? Pros? Cons? What could Corndish improve on?

Pros
* Finally seem to be getting a good mix of local places and national chains
* Goes without saying but has become a focal point of downtown. Gives downtown an energy, not so much for residents but for visitors.
* Brought basic services back downtown for residents


For improvements:
* Get a TV station to move in to the empty space at the NW corner of 14th and main.
* Get a famous BBQ restaurant to move in
* mainstream clothing shop
* Keep going strong and get Three Light going
* Get the 670 cap built

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby flyingember » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:35 am

Pros:
it provides a central place for people to go who may be confused about what's downtown, helping introduce them to more places through someplace easy to pick
the sports events on the big screen made it look like a great place to go

much better than the well know Kemper issue of walking out and the only real choice was to leave downtown

Get a TV station to move in to the empty space at the NW corner of 14th and main

why a tv station? intrigued on thought basis

mainstream clothing shop

I would like to see this take one of the empty lots or buildings further south. something clearly urban where they're in multiple floors. P&L really doesn't have the space to do this right

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:51 am

Lol p&l has plenty of empty space to do a big retail clothing store.

TV station would just be a fun interactive way to advertise downtown to viewers....kind of like a smaller Rockefeller center the of setup.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby kcjak » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:24 pm

KCPowercat wrote:Lol p&l has plenty of empty space to do a big retail clothing store.

TV station would just be a fun interactive way to advertise downtown to viewers....kind of like a smaller Rockefeller center the of setup.


I agree on the TV station - always thought the Panera space at Crown Center would've been a great location. Just creates a little 'buzz' when I watch the news in cities like Chicago, Dallas or SLC where they have news stations downtown.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby cityscape » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:42 pm

Pros:
*Filled a need and spurred further development in downtown
*Living room concept in P&L has been the unsung hero of the project.
*Wow factor for out of town visitors and suburbanites

Cons:
*Negative press and discrimination concerns

*Empty spaces in key locations

Key Improvements:
*Would prefer more relaxed bars (AKA Bar Louie & Flying Saucer)
*Would really like to see a canopy between Sprint Center and P&L district over Grand. This would help with larger events and improve walkability when Grand is shut down.
*Cap 670 and finish 3 & 4 light buildings
*Need more public art, maybe a rotating art space in conjunction with the art institute
*Would like to see some innovative shops (Amazon pop-up, etc..)

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby AllThingsKC » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:16 pm

Pros:
best watch parties in a downtown environment
Sprint Center being right next door adds to the success
Westport is still alive and well
Even though some may be chains, there are still some very unique places.

Cons:
Needs more businesses that downtown residents would use daily
Trying to remember all the times when it's ok and not ok to allow children into the Live block.
Would like to see more local businesses there.
beautyfromashes wrote:This thread is now worse than the Downtown Stadium/ Save our Stadiums thread. It makes me want to shoot myself in the head everytime I see it turn red. Congratulations ATKC, you now = kcdcchef.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:20 pm

Oh and add a damn fountain somewhere...not that piddly fountain by BK

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby StrangerThings » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:34 pm

cityscape wrote:
Cons:
*Negative press and discrimination concerns



It's important to note that Cordish has dealt with these issues in other cities and it's always related to the dress code. To my knowledge, they've never been found guilty of actual discrimination. I use to work with one guy who recently sued and lost. He was just after that quick cash.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby StrangerThings » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:36 pm

KCPowercat wrote:Oh and add a damn fountain somewhere...not that piddly fountain by BK



They tried, the stage was actually designed to be a fountain when not in use. It really never worked properly and would flood the backstage area.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby KCLover » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:45 pm

I still think P&L needs a Hard Rock Cafe - cheesy and overrated, yes... but they are draws and I think it would do well.
What better place than the empty space at 14th & Grand across from Sprint Center.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby Highlander » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:35 pm

KCLover wrote:I still think P&L needs a Hard Rock Cafe - cheesy and overrated, yes... but they are draws and I think it would do well.
What better place than the empty space at 14th & Grand across from Sprint Center.


They do need a national chain that is a big trendy draw like HR Café. It's surprising how many people want to eat there as they are indeed cheesy and overrated. I never quite understood their draw in the US as they were originally created to satisfy demand or a good burger in Europe/overseas and such restaurants are commonplace in the US. Cordish had a public falling out with HRC a few years back, otherwise, I think you'd see one there.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby StrangerThings » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:00 pm

KCLover wrote:I still think P&L needs a Hard Rock Cafe - cheesy and overrated, yes... but they are draws and I think it would do well.
What better place than the empty space at 14th & Grand across from Sprint Center.



That space has been taken, not announced yet though.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby beautyfromashes » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:44 pm

Need more healthy quick options, especially for lunch. I'm surprised that a Panera hasn't been added yet. It would be packed all the time. Would like to also see a bookstore. I'd like to see them change the direction a bit to not just be catering to the hookup crowd on the weekend and build places to be on an everyday basis.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby mister816 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:05 pm

I'm going to go ahead and triple down on the HRC. We need one in KC.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby teclis » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:53 am

Tokyo Joe's! All over the metro please.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby DaveKCMO » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:59 pm

KCPowercat wrote:Well? Pros? Cons? What could Cordish improve on?


pros:
- unmistakeable catalyst for downtown's newfound "vibrancy"
- blends in with surroundings quite well
- mostly good restaurants
- decent programming all year long
- opting in to pay the streetcar sales tax
- residential towers!
- cosentino's (i don't care what the cheapsters say, it's a great urban grocer we should be proud of!)

cons:
- the development agreement gives cordish WAY too much power over public right of way, parking, etc.
- lame retail
- half-baked concepts (they should just stay out of the restaurant business entirely... pizza bar!)
- prime spaces are still empty
- took them almost 10 years to fix the shitty sidewalks

an urban target and a few more chains/locals to replace the cordish failures would seal the deal.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby Highlander » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:13 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Well? Pros? Cons? What could Cordish improve on?


pros:
- unmistakeable catalyst for downtown's newfound "vibrancy"
- blends in with surroundings quite well
- mostly good restaurants
- decent programming all year long
- opting in to pay the streetcar sales tax
- residential towers!
- cosentino's (i don't care what the cheapsters say, it's a great urban grocer we should be proud of!)

cons:
- the development agreement gives cordish WAY too much power over public right of way, parking, etc.
- lame retail
- half-baked concepts (they should just stay out of the restaurant business entirely... pizza bar!)
- prime spaces are still empty
- took them almost 10 years to fix the shitty sidewalks

an urban target and a few more chains/locals to replace the cordish failures would seal the deal.


One additional pro - single-handedly wiped out blocks of surface parking on the south side of the loop. Some of that has re-appeared since along Grand north of Sprint Arena but a huge net improvement.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby wahoowa » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:49 pm

improvements, especially for CBD-area residents:

more diverse food options. something like 10 of the ~18 options between 13th and main & 14th and grand are interchangeable generic bar food, albeit at different price points. get some diverse food options in there. i don't want one there, but a damn buffalo wild wings would have enhanced the food diversity in the live district more than leinenkugel's did. some BBQ / mexican (i know it's failed at least twice) / thai / indian would be a very welcome improvement.

also, get mixx to extend hours to weeknights and weekends.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby StrangerThings » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:43 pm

Over the years I've worked with the Cordish company on many projects, so I have a unique perspective and insight to the way they do business.

Someone mentioned HRC, they still partner with them in Baltimore. Originally, a HRC was going to go into the yard house space and the midland was going to be a house of blues. That deal didn't work out, manly due to AEG offering a better deal.

Buffalo Wild Wings was going to go into the space now occupied by Johnnys but the Cordish's felt having a local restaurant would be better. Johhnys absolutely kills it in that space.

As for the knock on them doing restaurants. They have hundreds and hundreds of bars and restaurants in this country and soon overseas. The Pizza Bar concept may seem to be dumb from the outside looking in, but it makes money and serves a purpose. Quick and easy slices of pizza, nothing fancy.

The Tengo rebranding failed due to people not being able to detach the name from what the original Tengo was, a crazy nightclub with food as a low priority.

Retail-- the downtown environment just isn't there yet to support retail. The Garment District does very well and is a neat little concept. There's more on the way, they're very strategic about timing and have been in talks with major retailers for some time.

Empty spaces. They would rather have a space empty as opposed to leasing for below the market rate. There are only a few spots open and all have people interested. Two of those spaces will be filled by March with two new tenants. I believe the area is 95% leased currently.

Personally, I'd like to see a national or really good local Mexican option. Not sure how long the Dubliner will stick around but that would be a great spot.

I'd also like to see more concerts during the week days. They use to do a Wednesday series with the Rock before Johnny got butt hurt by one of the cordish big wigs. Both sides need to grow up.

I'd love to see a huge new LED screen, which they're working on according to my people.

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Re: P&L District 10 years later

Postby KCPowercat » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:00 pm

I think a German beer hall concept would be good when Dubliner leaves. Maybe just give Dubliner that front space facing 14th


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