KCRag Forum

moderne wrote:I vote no freeway cap/park for the south side of the Cordish buildings. These buildings are ugly and banal. No sense of any style or architecture. Maybe engineered but not architectural. Shame they would form a very soon to be dated cheap wall for the south loop. They deserve to be covered in freeway tire particles and obscured by carbon monoxide emissions. At least they are only high rise, not skyscrapers and better buildings will rise above them..Why cannot they be of a better quality like H&R Block or JE Dunn. I wish the MO employment building was still there for a more solid monumental building. I would rather cap the freeway with other structures with air rights directly over 670 that might mitigate the tackiness of the 4 Lights and W hotel.. Put the packet parks and piazza in front of more worthy good design. For all the criticism of Crown Center there is some good architecture with solid if not starchitect designers.----Edward Larabee Barnes,

Not sure why you think they are ugly and cheap, makes no sense to me, they are glass highrises. Two Light's price tag is over $100m, I don't consider that cheap. I think they will blend in nice with the surrounding modern buildings and the Sprint Center. We don't need any more brick buildings downtown, the entire loop is surrounded by brick buildings. Would you prefer they use vinyl siding?

One Light is part of a 30-year trend to build blue or green glass curtain walled buildings in the financial district.

https://twitter.com/flyingember/status/ ... 6970867712

beautyfromashes wrote:

DaveKCMO wrote:H&R block and JE dunn are both a disaster at street level. one light is not. so there!

One Light is street level friendly?? You can't even see into the first level because of the silverized glass. What's so friendly about 1L?

i said it wasn't a disaster compared to the two referenced as "better quality" (presumably from the skyline perspective only).

you can see inside the lobby of 1L. while it's not a true active use, it's far better than block and dunn. the city actually fought dunn on their blank wall facing the already dead park and only won minor concessions.

I do like the fact that they varied the height of Four Light in this latest rendering--making it taller, and also both Three and Four are drawn with slightly more complex roof lines, departing from the flat boring rectangle of One and Two--which helps break up the visual monotony to my eye. Also it looks like there is at least some effort to vary the look of the buildings' first few stories from one another. If they follow through with at least these changes, I don't think they will look project-y in 20 years.

Projects.

...and conformity... and architectural laziness. At least the above isn't the monotonous wall that Cordish currently shows.

Highlander wrote:I think you are correct in your concerns Fang. While I am happy to see an increase in hotel rooms and would have to assume it means there was some pent up demand, most hotels in cities in the US are driven by business customers and that is one thing I've not seen picking up in KC's urban core - an increase in occupied office space. To be honest, I'd rather have BNIM get incentives to stay than giving incentives to a large convention hotel. Hopefully, they will stay in the core.

Downtown needs much more private business. If we can get some of the existing space filled plus some new i.e. Copaken's space next to the CBE, that would go a long way to supporting downtown hotels and residential. I really think they need to make a hard run at any company that hires a lot of recent college graduates. Many of them prefer urban settings to begin with plus don't carry any negative stereotypes of downtown. And now with the news of Kansas openly soliciting Missouri businesses via mail mass mailings, it should be open season for Missouri to strike back and to pull more Kansas businesses over.

I suspect we won't see a large move of companies towards downtown because of the suburban mentality of local biz. They ignore downtown even though Class A rent is below even WyCo. The main reason is likely parking. Yes there is a lot downtown but not enough dedicated to Class A buildings for nearly all employees. And we don't have decent mass transit from the burbs. Biz wants large floor plates and cheap parking for all or nearly all directly in front of building, that is unfortunately the KC way with most local biz. And they can get that in the burbs.

In downtown KCMO there is X amount of vacant Class A office space but how is that space broken out? A floor here, a floor there. A building having three vacant floors but they are not adjoining. Maybe another way of asking is what are the top 3 spaces available by size? To me that would be interesting info in addition to just reporting the percentage of vacancy.

earthling wrote:I suspect we won't see a large move of companies towards downtown because of the suburban mentality of local biz. They ignore downtown even though Class A rent is below even WyCo. The main reason is likely parking. Yes there is a lot downtown but not enough dedicated to Class A buildings for nearly all employees. And we don't have decent mass transit from the burbs. Biz wants large floor plates and cheap parking for all or nearly all directly in front of building, that is unfortunately the KC way with most local biz. And they can get that in the burbs.

Yes, there is probably a suburban mentality for existing larger companies. It may be hard to overcome that since many of the management people, who make decisions, keep their offices near where they already live.

Downtown should focus more on emerging companies and businesses. Small now, but that will grow in place. Younger companies with younger management are more likely to locate downtown. They are more inclined to rent in older buildings with cheaper rents.

The other thing attracting companies back downtown in other cities is the fact that many of their workers want to live in more urban neighborhoods. So downtown is still catching up, and that's why it's important to prioritize creating more housing. As downtown's population grows, it will become more of an employment base for business.

In addition, the more workers that live downtown, or close by, the fewer parking spaces that are required for that company onsite. This is why making projects like the East Village denser are important, and why having that project being stalled is hurting downtown's future. The more people you have living in the East Village, Crown Center, the Crossroads, Columbus Park, and the River Market, the better it is for downtown. Neighborhoods where workers can walk to the streetcar and ride to work and back.

This is also why the density of the new Columbus Park project is disappointing. It sits near the end of the streetcar line. It should have been designed to be a higher-density transit-oriented project. My complaints about the outcome are less about me just being a crank, and had more to do with the long-term health of downtown as a business center. A city that is climbing back from decades of decline needs to maximize residential development in the neighborhoods downtown. Downtown needs as much management and worker housing as possible to attract business and retail back.

With Cordish announcing a new office building in STL as part of its $220 million BPV Phase 2, could it be possible that they would build an office building here too? I believe I heard STL's downtown vacancy is far worse then ours.
Are there any rumors on how far out a three light announcement could be?

Either 3 Light or 4 Light might be targeted for hotel/residential combo but if they can get an office tenant signed, is possible. Speculative office build is not likely. Given parking requirements for office in this town, I don't see it happening either way in those 2 locations.

with two light leasing, could we see Three Light announced sometime in the first half of next year?

ldai_phs wrote:with two light leasing, could we see Three Light announced sometime in the first half of next year?

They already announced it back in March. Construction will start before Two Light is completed

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 69357.html

Impressive they are moving units at $2.25/sqft. Time to think 4 Light with a combined hotel. And with the market willing to pay that much, maybe it will attract more big ticket hirise developers.

A Vockrodt print story stated that Cordish thinks they might start construction of three light prior to when two light is leasing in spring 2018. Because that is so far off I wouldn't hold them to it.

kboish wrote:A Vockrodt print story stated that Cordish thinks they might start construction of three light prior to when two light is leasing in spring 2018. Because that is so far off I wouldn't hold them to it.

Even that is more solid than one normally gets.

Two Light was not announced in any level of "we want to" that far in advance.

Cordish is still nailing down financing for 3 Light.

Any new news or rumors about this project?

Is there a completed 'final' design for Three? Still hoping it won't look anywhere near the same, the mega wall from Two is already starting to take shape. Another one with same/similar look next to it will certainly create the MCW - Monotonous Cordish Wall.