Two Light - 14th & Grand

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KCPowercat
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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:51 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
WoodDraw wrote:Also, let's put aside the defense that cordish just loves this architecture. They're doing it because it's cheap and we all know it.
These buildings aren’t cheap. Do some research and compare them to other buildings of similar height and size all around be world and you’ll find they cost the same as those. 108-130 million dollars.
Can you provide a link to where this comes from...I'm not disagreeing, I'm just interested in the data

I’ll let the experts make the call and not the haters.
For so many comments about how your organization cares about the neighborhood and community, comments like this seem to fly in the face of that...dismissing comments as being "haters" is rude.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by TheLastGentleman » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:52 pm

I didn't realize tinting the color of glass was such a big deal.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by kas1 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:58 pm

I had initially assumed that Four Light would occupy only the western half of its block, such that it would have the same footprint as Two and Three but rotated 90 degrees. If Cordish were simply to limit the height of what they build on the sliver that fronts Main it would do a lot to open up view corridors while still allowing a perfectly reasonable footprint for a tower.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by TheLastGentleman » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:18 pm

kas1 wrote:I had initially assumed that Four Light would occupy only the western half of its block, such that it would have the same footprint as Two and Three but rotated 90 degrees. If Cordish were simply to limit the height of what they build on the sliver that fronts Main it would do a lot to open up view corridors while still allowing a perfectly reasonable footprint for a tower.
Yeah, making the western part of the tower taller and shortening the southern part could look really good. I've always really liked how 1 light looks from the south, so if they could mimic that I'd be happy

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:16 pm

Thanks for those comparisons....man I'd love 2 or 3 light to do something like One Uptown....

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by im2kull » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:26 pm

StrangerThings wrote:The haters comment comes from a place of frustration...

...it’s a bit much to always hear the glass wall knock.
Why do you think that is?

This isn't rocket science. People are clearly disappointed with the "Glass Wall" look. Maybe you should try advising that to the higher ups and pushing for change, instead of defending the same thing over and over.. expecting to hear better feedback.

Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:10 pm

any handwringing about skyline views is silly in my mind, it's constantly evolving (hopefully)....i'd agree there.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by GRID » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:29 pm

StrangerThings wrote:You know what happens when a mid-sized city goes decades in between building high rise buildings? Massive changes in popular design. This “glass wall” argument is exhausting and frutile.

Is it Cordish’s responsibility and financial burden to go out of their way to build drastically different buildings to maintain how it looks from a certain vantage point? Shouldn’t we be looking at the fact that this city’s most iconic high rise buildings have all been built in clusters during certain decades?

The early 1900’s,commerce and others. The 30’s, 909 walnut, PNL and others. The 80’s, OKCP, Town pavilion, AT&T. Now, 1-4 Light, 30 years after the most recent serious high rise downtown construction. So is it shocking that designs and preferred finishes have changed in the last 30 years? You’ll notice all those iconic buildings are very similar in style if built within the same decade. I’m sure shit was talked in the 80’s when ground was broke on one KC place and Town Pavilion about how they were going to ruin the beautiful skyline with all that glass which would block the Art Deco decor of the buildings constructed 50 years prior. :/
I totally understand where you are coming from. All I'm saying is I hope that Cordish will do what they can to make the buildings look attractive when all lined up next to each other along a barrier (the freeway). Hopefully over time new buildings will go up and the skyline will continue to evolve, but why not try to address the glass wall thing as much as possible rather than blowing it off? I have supported everything about the Cordish towers from day one, including the incentives, but I also don't see what the big deal is about trying to improve how they will look in the landscape of the city either. The cowboy sign, the huge one light two light three light etc. The city should have more control over some of the aesthetics otherwise cordish (or any other private company) will do what they want.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:35 pm

StrangerThings wrote:I just want everyone to understand we are doing the best we can. I’d love to be a part of a project that’s ground breaking or historically guaranteed to be iconic. We can’t justify that expense when the means to recoup the costs aren’t there.

If demand changes and increases for a platinum level apartment/condo unit, Cordish has the ability and desire to build it. I just don’t see anyone locally willing to drop 5-8 million for a penthouse condo.

So at this point, we will build what’s planned and all buildings will be similar in some capacity’s and slightly different in others.

I’m always reminding myself this forum is full of somewhat unique people. 99% of KC isn’t on here and don’t have an interest in these type of things.
Being dismissive isn't helpful or constructive.

If 3 or 4 light would do that Dallas project...which is in the same price...I think everyone...even those not on this forum....would think it's pretty great to see the buildings get some different designs in these buildings.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by GRID » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:37 pm

kas1 wrote:I had initially assumed that Four Light would occupy only the western half of its block, such that it would have the same footprint as Two and Three but rotated 90 degrees. If Cordish were simply to limit the height of what they build on the sliver that fronts Main it would do a lot to open up view corridors while still allowing a perfectly reasonable footprint for a tower.
That would make a HUGE difference.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by TheLastGentleman » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:38 pm

And, like I said before, we aren't asking for engineering marvels or architectural masterpieces like you seem to be suggesting. Personally, I would be happy with just slightly different shades of glass/mullions. I can't imagine that would add much to the budget.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by GRID » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:52 pm

StrangerThings wrote:I just want everyone to understand we are doing the best we can. I’d love to be a part of a project that’s ground breaking or historically guaranteed to be iconic. We can’t justify that expense when the means to recoup the costs aren’t there.

If demand changes and increases for a platinum level apartment/condo unit, Cordish has the ability and desire to build it. I just don’t see anyone locally willing to drop 5-8 million for a penthouse condo.

So at this point, we will build what’s planned and all buildings will be similar in some capacity’s and slightly different in others.

I’m always reminding myself this forum is full of somewhat unique people. 99% of KC isn’t on here and don’t have an interest in these type of things.
I don't get this. Why does it have to be a tower with multi million dollar units in order for you to change up the facade, glass color etc? I never thought the buildings were cheap. They are actually quite attractive as stand alone buildings. It's just when you line them up and the fact that the south sides of them are them have the least amount of architectural features that causes the glass wall thing.

Here is a similar size and cost building. Something like this would change things up.

Image

Image
Last edited by GRID on Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:55 pm

lol "the city has been happy with everything Cordish has done"

who is "the city"? Citizens (who is "the city" in my mind) definitely have had concerns about things Cordish has done and their delivery in projections....not everyone (personally I think Cordish has done a great job overall) but overreaching statements like that just can't possibly be true or proven.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:55 pm

Exactly Grid...that seems to be all people are asking...change it up a bit....within the well funded budgets they give these buildings.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by WoodDraw » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:26 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
WoodDraw wrote:Also, let's put aside the defense that cordish just loves this architecture. They're doing it because it's cheap and we all know it.
I shouldn’t even respond to such a stupid comment but I can’t resist.

These buildings aren’t cheap. Do some research and compare them to other buildings of similar height and size all around be world and you’ll find they cost the same as those. 108-130 million dollars.

I’ll let the experts make the call and not the haters. One Light has won various national awards including an award for excellent from the ULI which has 40,000 members who are all involved in various aspects of urban development. Cheap buildings don’t win awards. Hate on though.
You really should get some media training if you're going to take such a prominent role in your company's PR strategy.

And it is cheap. Cordish is saving money by reusing similar design and materials. They could easily diversify the look, but they choose not to. Nothing of what I said was wrong or stupid.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by normalthings » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:27 pm

It has been very hard to find details on the Market Tower Project whose renderings you posted. All I can find is that this projected was proposed in 2008, stalled, and then was massively redesigned in 2014. Also is down the street from Apples massive new office building. Not necessarily a fair example.

Realistically, it sounds like Stranger Things has tried his best to convey our messages to his higher-ups. They have made the choice to not change the designs or materials used. There is nothing we can do and nothing he can do. Maybe if we lived in a less car-dependent city the $10-20 million that goes to the garage could be used on a taller or better-looking tower.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by beautyfromashes » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:24 pm

ldai_phs wrote: Realistically, it sounds like Stranger Things has tried his best to convey our messages to his higher-ups. They have made the choice to not change the designs or materials used. There is nothing we can do and nothing he can do. Maybe if we lived in a less car-dependent city the $10-20 million that goes to the garage could be used on a taller or better-looking tower.
I’d agree with this assessment. ST is low man on the pole and doesn’t have any power to change the design of this building. I’m sure he’s conveyed our opinion as it’s fairly universal since the first tower went up several years ago. Money talks and besides offering to buy the penthouse if they change the design, I’d say there is nothing that could be done.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by gfenn11 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:25 pm

ldai_phs wrote:It has been very hard to find details on the Market Tower Project whose renderings you posted. All I can find is that this projected was proposed in 2008, stalled, and then was massively redesigned in 2014. Also is down the street from Apples massive new office building. Not necessarily a fair example.

Realistically, it sounds like Stranger Things has tried his best to convey our messages to his higher-ups. They have made the choice to not change the designs or materials used. There is nothing we can do and nothing he can do. Maybe if we lived in a less car-dependent city the $10-20 million that goes to the garage could be used on a taller or better-looking tower.

But they aren't even spending that 10-20 million on the parking garage. Don't forget that. ;-)

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:40 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:lol "the city has been happy with everything Cordish has done"

who is "the city"? Citizens (who is "the city" in my mind) definitely have had concerns about things Cordish has done and their delivery in projections....not everyone (personally I think Cordish has done a great job overall) but overreaching statements like that just can't possibly be true or proven.
The people who make decisions and are authorized agents on the city’s behalf. Outside of this forum, I’ve never once heard a glass wall complaint.
like councilperson? Staff? We know council isn't all in on everything Cordish has done...

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by GRID » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:47 pm

As long as the buildings taper up in height as planned and have at least some noticeable changes in design, I will hold out hope that they will look fine. I do hope Four Light is more of a signature structure though. I would assume that's years from starting construction and once Three Light is up, the "glass wall" may get more notice outside this forum and possibly impact its design.

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