Two Light - 14th & Grand

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby beautyfromashes » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:09 pm

If this was a private company purely investing their own cash into a project that rightfully benefits DT, I wouldn’t have a thing to say. That’s not the full case. This is a public/private partnership where the city put (and continues to put up) millions upon millions of tax funds and the other partner was suppose to be an expert at retail development. Cordish got a sweet deal in a prime location. They shouldn’t be afraid of some hard questioning of their plan and strong words wanting some more than delivered currently. Hoping they step up.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:22 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:

Very aware. He actually called Walnut “incubator row” today. How many of those can you live in the same building? How many of those are in a brand new high rise? How many of those have worked with 300 companies in another market?


So watering down a well served market...all the while an underserved retail market isn't fulfilled....that's being a true leader in the neighborhood...congrats


Let me see, hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on market research by third party companies or your opinion.... I don’t know why I come on here, I guess I’m a sucker for punishment. Than again, I wouldn’t have made it to the director level without being passionate about what we do. At this point, I’m understanding I’m wasting an incredible amount of time responding to a unique group set of people who will find issues with nearly anything Cordish does unless it’s exactly what they want.

I’ve used the streetcar once. It’s virtually useless to me personally yet I’m an avid supporter because I understand and agree the demand exists and while it’s useless to me in its current form, I do see that long term it will personally benifit me. I find it borderline insane that you think a company with nearly a billion dollars invested into this downtown area would do anything but what they have concluded to be the best for area. You can have your personal opinions and likes/dislikes of decisions made, but to make statements like “Cordish will have failed” or to assume you know better about what downtown needs simply because you live here is obtuse.

If you have any professional insight or market knowledge that I’m unaware of, I’d love to hear it. I started coming here years ago to take in everyone’s opinions and pass them along in meetings. I’d love to pass along something besides “more retail”. More retail is a part of the master plan. Capping is in the plan. More high rise buildings are in the plan.

What’s not in the plan is rushing anything because Cordish is afraid of someone calling them a failure.


Spare us the "cordish is treated mean here" lines. Cordish has gotten a ton of good jobs and glad you are here on this site. Even more from city officials in the tune of millions of dollars in incentives a decade later....so yes we are going to analyze and comment on moves cordish does...it's a message board...it has opinions.

We are glad you participate in the forums...debate isn't meant to run people.off. not everybody is going to agree...Especially when this plan all along was to bring downtown amenities...that started strong with the likes of cosentinos and kaldis but has fizzled mostly.... have to understand it's a bit frustrating for residents to see a block long retail space still empty (13th} and the city manager showing up to announce co-working space....a decade later. We're probably just expecting too much from cordish. I remember when this district opened...and 20k was the magic numbe thrown around for retail to show up...then 30k...now it's 40k....I can tell you I see a lot more retail in other similar sized cities with less residential population.....

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby JBmidtown » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:29 pm

I really want to give a shit about this but...I can’t.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:31 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:If this was a private company purely investing their own cash into a project that rightfully benefits DT, I wouldn’t have a thing to say. That’s not the full case. This is a public/private partnership where the city put (and continues to put up) millions upon millions of tax funds and the other partner was suppose to be an expert at retail development. Cordish got a sweet deal in a prime location. They shouldn’t be afraid of some hard questioning of their plan and strong words wanting some more than delivered currently. Hoping they step up.


Cordish is a private family owned business who have invested hundreds of millions into this downtown. They are experts at all things development and I’m sure if you took the time to research them, you’d see this. Part of being an expert in retail is knowing when and when not to add more retail.

Cordish did get a good deal, however I don’t remember anyone else stepping up and actually being able to execute. It’s important to take a step back and look at things from an overall perspective and not one so selfishly aligned with ones personal wants and needs. It’s frustrating when you and your fellow coworkers do the leg work, the research and have proof of concept in hand. You’re excited about something and you’ve met with dozens of local startups who are eager to come aboard yet people on here like to respond with wonderfully mature reactions like “fart”.

In regards to Two Light, the city chipped in 17% of the total budget. I think the city is very happy with the intangible assets that come along with that 17%. The city and Cordish have a great working relationship and Cordish answers tough questions weekly from the city. Changes have been made at the cities request. Both are doing their jobs and doing them well.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby hartliss » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:32 pm

I applaud Strangerthings from coming on here to offer up his perspective, especially given the confidential nature of his/her role. As I see it, a co-working space will bring more people to the general vicinity and it is better than a vacant storefront. I know we all want an urban Target/retail, etc but it seems shortsighted to complain about the tenant mix but you can't please everyone.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:36 pm

To be clear...it's the taxpayers that decide if the city is doing their job and doing it well.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:39 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:
So watering down a well served market...all the while an underserved retail market isn't fulfilled....that's being a true leader in the neighborhood...congrats


Let me see, hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on market research by third party companies or your opinion.... I don’t know why I come on here, I guess I’m a sucker for punishment. Than again, I wouldn’t have made it to the director level without being passionate about what we do. At this point, I’m understanding I’m wasting an incredible amount of time responding to a unique group set of people who will find issues with nearly anything Cordish does unless it’s exactly what they want.

I’ve used the streetcar once. It’s virtually useless to me personally yet I’m an avid supporter because I understand and agree the demand exists and while it’s useless to me in its current form, I do see that long term it will personally benifit me. I find it borderline insane that you think a company with nearly a billion dollars invested into this downtown area would do anything but what they have concluded to be the best for area. You can have your personal opinions and likes/dislikes of decisions made, but to make statements like “Cordish will have failed” or to assume you know better about what downtown needs simply because you live here is obtuse.

If you have any professional insight or market knowledge that I’m unaware of, I’d love to hear it. I started coming here years ago to take in everyone’s opinions and pass them along in meetings. I’d love to pass along something besides “more retail”. More retail is a part of the master plan. Capping is in the plan. More high rise buildings are in the plan.

What’s not in the plan is rushing anything because Cordish is afraid of someone calling them a failure.


Spare us the "cordish is treated mean here" lines. Cordish has gotten a ton of good jobs and glad you are here on this site. Even more from city officials in the tune of millions of dollars in incentives a decade later....so yes we are going to analyze and comment on moves cordish does...it's a message board...it has opinions.

We are glad you participate in the forums...debate isn't meant to run people.off. not everybody is going to agree...Especially when this plan all along was to bring downtown amenities...that started strong with the likes of cosentinos and kaldis but has fizzled mostly.... have to understand it's a bit frustrating for residents to see a block long retail space still empty (13th} and the city manager showing up to announce co-working space....a decade later. We're probably just expecting too much from cordish. I remember when this district opened...and 20k was the magic numbe thrown around for retail to show up...then 30k...now it's 40k....I can tell you I see a lot more retail in other similar sized cities with less residential population.....


Debate? Sorry, I didn’t see much of a debate here, just junior high level insults about a decision made. I was on the ole high school debate team. I don’t remember insulting others or dismissing ones perspective with comments like “fart”. I’m not arguing that Cordish is treated mean here, I do think you could be a bit better about constructive criticism instead of sounding like a grumpy old man angry his wildcats got spanked last night by their state rivals. It’s not Cordish’s fault you moved down here at the beginning of the downtown revitalization and have grown impatient with the pace of development. I’m sure if you had it your way, they be breaking ground on Three Light, Four Light and the new class-a office tower tomorrow.

I can’t explain it any better. Cordish wants more retail. Cordish is involved in very serious talks with retailers including having a few LOI’s signed. It’s all about timing and patience. You want to put the cart before the horse... thank your lucky stars you’re not a developer.
Last edited by StrangerThings on Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:41 pm

KCPowercat wrote:To be clear...it's the taxpayers that decide if the city is doing their job and doing it well.


Thanks for that clarification. I could barely remember that from my JD degree.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:46 pm

Okay. If you don't think I and others have provided constructive feedback in these threads then I am not sure what you are looking for.

You are making these way more personal than it needs to be (age, when moved downtown, team affiliation?). I have yet to see anyone attack you personally on anything....

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:50 pm

Any dissenting point made against what Cordish is delivering is met with (paraphrasing) "cordish spent millions of dollars and knows best so shhhh" replies.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:52 pm

KCPowercat wrote:Okay. If you don't think I and others have provided constructive feedback in these threads then I am not sure what you are looking for.

You are making these way more personal than it needs to be (age, when moved downtown, team affiliation?). I have yet to see anyone attack you personally on anything....



You have provided constructive feedback in other situations, but you’ve been more than condescendly rude today. I’d consider calling a project someone has worked on for several months a “fart” as a personal attack.

I don’t know if you’re 35 or 75, I’m simply pointing out you sound very much like the “get off my lawn” type today. It’s an observation, not an insult.

When you moved downtown isn’t personal, it’s important. You’re very obviously unhappy with the current pace of development. I’d expect you to be a bit impatient as you have a decade of your time invested into this area but I’d also expect you to understand the difference between a new district just opening and than forming a steady long term pace.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:56 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Okay. If you don't think I and others have provided constructive feedback in these threads then I am not sure what you are looking for.

You are making these way more personal than it needs to be (age, when moved downtown, team affiliation?). I have yet to see anyone attack you personally on anything....



You have provided constructive feedback in other situations, but you’ve been more than condescendly rude today. I’d consider calling a project someone has worked on for several months a “fart” as a personal attack.

I don’t know if you’re 35 or 75, I’m simply pointing out you sound very much like the “get off my lawn” type today. It’s an observation, not an insult.

When you moved downtown isn’t personal, it’s important. You’re very obviously unhappy with the current pace of development. I’d expect you to be a bit impatient as you have a decade of your time invested into this area but I’d also expect you to understand the difference between a new district just opening and than forming a steady long term pace.


My comment was to the announced tenant, it's a common internet response to lackluster news...without knowing anything about who did what on getting that tenant how could one possibly be construed as a personal attack?

I couldn't be happier with how downtown is going in the past few years....assumptions are a dangerous thing.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:56 pm

KCPowercat wrote:Any dissenting point made against what Cordish is delivering is met with (paraphrasing) "cordish spent millions of dollars and knows best so shhhh" replies.


No and it’s getting frustrating that you’re not understanding. It’s not about Cordish spent millions so people should shut up because Cordish knows best. Not. At. All. Cordish values the public’s opinions as do I. It’s why I’m here.

It’s about the fact that Cordish has a lot on the line. They’re very heavily invested in this city, so WHY would anyone think they’d make a uniformed or initially poor decision in regards to a tenant choice? They’re doing what they wholeheartedly think is the best for this city and them as business owners.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:58 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Any dissenting point made against what Cordish is delivering is met with (paraphrasing) "cordish spent millions of dollars and knows best so shhhh" replies.


No and it’s getting frustrating that you’re not understanding. It’s not about Cordish spent millions so people should shut up because Cordish knows best. Not. At. All. Cordish values the public’s opinions as do I. It’s why I’m here.

It’s about the fact that Cordish has a lot on the line. They’re very heavily invested in this city, so WHY would anyone think they’d make a uniformed or initially poor decision in regards to a tenant choice? They’re doing what they wholeheartedly think is the best for this city and them as business owners.


Businesses spend millions all the time and make poor decisions. I'm sure spark will provide cordish with some nice cash flow. Congrats.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:06 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Any dissenting point made against what Cordish is delivering is met with (paraphrasing) "cordish spent millions of dollars and knows best so shhhh" replies.


No and it’s getting frustrating that you’re not understanding. It’s not about Cordish spent millions so people should shut up because Cordish knows best. Not. At. All. Cordish values the public’s opinions as do I. It’s why I’m here.

It’s about the fact that Cordish has a lot on the line. They’re very heavily invested in this city, so WHY would anyone think they’d make a uniformed or initially poor decision in regards to a tenant choice? They’re doing what they wholeheartedly think is the best for this city and them as business owners.


Businesses spend millions all the time and make poor decisions. I'm sure spark will provide cordish with some nice cash flow. Congrats.


And hundreds of local entrepreneurs and startups with a place to be creative and grow their business. And tons of community outreach. And many other positive things including a profitable tenant.

Cordish has made mistakes, but you and others are essentially declaring this one a mistake before the first desk goes in.

I’ve wasted too much time on here today. I’m sure I’ll be back tomorrow after the Three Light announcement! Remember, criticism good, insult bad.

“I’m not a fan of the glass on Three Light” -good
“Three Light f’in sucks what idiot designed this fart of a building!” -bad

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby beautyfromashes » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:10 pm

May each of those coworking entrepreneurs strike it big and each company turn into a high rise. Cheers to mutual passion that doesn’t quite see eye to eye. Tomorrow we roast 3 Light. :)

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:21 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:May each of those coworking entrepreneurs strike it big and each company turn into a high rise. Cheers to mutual passion that doesn’t quite see eye to eye. Tomorrow we roast 3 Light. :)


Lol. Looking forward to it!

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby ldai_phs » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:32 pm

Do you think we will like it?
What time is the announcement?

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:58 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:
No and it’s getting frustrating that you’re not understanding. It’s not about Cordish spent millions so people should shut up because Cordish knows best. Not. At. All. Cordish values the public’s opinions as do I. It’s why I’m here.

It’s about the fact that Cordish has a lot on the line. They’re very heavily invested in this city, so WHY would anyone think they’d make a uniformed or initially poor decision in regards to a tenant choice? They’re doing what they wholeheartedly think is the best for this city and them as business owners.


Businesses spend millions all the time and make poor decisions. I'm sure spark will provide cordish with some nice cash flow. Congrats.


And hundreds of local entrepreneurs and startups with a place to be creative and grow their business. And tons of community outreach. And many other positive things including a profitable tenant.

Cordish has made mistakes, but you and others are essentially declaring this one a mistake before the first desk goes in.

I’ve wasted too much time on here today. I’m sure I’ll be back tomorrow after the Three Light announcement! Remember, criticism good, insult bad.

“I’m not a fan of the glass on Three Light” -good
“Three Light f’in sucks what idiot designed this fart of a building!” -bad


Actually I don't think anybody called this tenant a mistake. Overhyped with city officials showing up for the announcement? Sure.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby WoodDraw » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:15 pm

At least it wasn't a bank.


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