How can downtown appeal to more families?

[chrizow]

if the KCMO schools improve substantially, or if there is a new crop of charters to appeal to families that would otherwise flee to kansas or lee's summit, you'll see families stick around.  there is no reason at all for anyone to try to lure them to downtown (meaning the river market, loop, and xroads), i.e. 5% of the city, when there are tens of thousands of family homes all over the urban core and into the BKS/waldo area.  but like i said, families with kids are successfully living in areas near downtown, such as westside, longfellow, coleman highlands, etc., but those places have more in common with midtown than downtown.

[beautyfromashes]

^^^
I agree.  There are plenty of nice family-friendly neighborhoods in the core.  It just seems that there is a giant 'pushing-out' of people.  ie. attract singles to the core, move them further out to midtown when they get married, and move them to the suburbs when they have kids.  It doesn't have to be that way and, like you said, schools are the reason.  Businesses in the core will soon start to get smart and take over this problem.  I'm surprised that you haven't seen a Hallmark or American Century supported charter school yet. 

[kcmetro]

It's ALL about the schools.  If the schools suck, nobody is going to stick around.

[chrizow]

acadamie lafayette probably prevents 50+ families from ditching KCMO each year.  if they expand as planned, it will be even more. 

we only need about 10 more schools with their success rate - or, for more KCMO schools to step things up. 

that said, there are good schools in KCMO.  it's not like every school is a scene from "dangerous minds."  gordon parks, lincoln prep, foreign language academy, and others are all valid options, and there are likely others as well that i don't know about.  if you're an involved, active parent, you can send your kids to these and other schools in KCMO (to say nothing of the myriad private options) and your kids will be well-educated and prepared for college.

[LenexatoKCMO]

It's ALL about the schools.  If the schools suck, nobody is going to stick around.

Yes that has clearly crushed Ward Parkway, Brookside, Waldo.  Might as well bulldoze them down since no one wants to live there.  

[GRID]

You guys really look down on suburbanites  dont you? (even though 90% of KCMO proper is suburban too).  Just keep ripping on them.  2 million people in KC, the vast majority of them suburbanites, just like any major metro.  There are tens of thousands of families in Lee's Summit, Blue Springs, Liberty, Olathe etc that like Downtown.

You have to give them reasons to visit though.  One of the biggest ways to get suburbanites to visit the city is to offer urban recreation.  Urban parks, bike trails, river crossings etc.  KC SUCKS at this and is being clobbered by almost every city in the country.  All you have to do is drive to Little Rock, Tulsa, Des Moines or Omaha (let alone Denver, Chicago, Minneapolis etc) and see how urban recreation attracts tons of people into the heart of the city.

There needs to be other reasons too.  Families come down in droves to the airshow, they ride the buses and walk everwhere.  I brought up the aquarium idea because I see just how powerfull downtown aquariums are.  They are huge family and tourist magnets.  They work.  You can hate aquariums and still understand the impact they can have.

Downtown KC is NEVER going to be a place young families with kids will move to.  A few might, but it will never amount to much.  This is true for any major city, let alone a city that is known for having some of the best suburban life in the country and a city where living downtown actually produces more in- conveniences than conveniences.   Some of the main reason families do choose to live in the city are to avoid traffic and have urban recreational options.  In KC there is no traffic and very little urban recreational options.  Then you factor in the lack of basic retail even a freaking mcdonalds and you will never compete.  If you want "urban" family living in KC, you go to Brookside.

But man, some of you are off the charts arrogant and snobby to the very people you need the most.  The people from the Northland or Grain Valley that you think are so much lower than you.

A lot of them have no interest in Downtown.  But a lot of them do.  For the 20,000 people that live in the RCP that truly respect, like and want Downtown to be a great place, there are probably 200,000 of them that live in the burbs for whatever reason.  

Give them a reason to come downtown, not more reasons to avoid it by snubbing your noses at them.

[chrizow]

Yes that has clearly crushed Ward Parkway, Brookside, Waldo.  Might as well bulldoze them down since no one wants to live there.  

and much of midtown too.  fine, upstanding white families in roanoke, valentine, coleman highlands, hyde park, southmoreland, etc. have sent their kids to private or public schools for decades....

[kcmetro]

Yes that has clearly crushed Ward Parkway, Brookside, Waldo.  Might as well bulldoze them down since no one wants to live there.  

Apples and oranges.  We're talking about downtown.  Downtown is a completely different neighborhood than the well established residential neighborhoods of BS and Waldo.  Ward Parkway...well, that might as well be in Mission Hills.

[KCMax]

and much of midtown too.  fine, upstanding white families in roanoke, valentine, coleman highlands, hyde park, southmoreland, etc. have sent their kids to private or public schools for decades....

And I applaud them, but kcmetro is right to an extent - if KCMO had a rep for being even a decent school district, the property values in Waldo/Brookside/SKC would explode and NE JoCo would pretty much crater.

The Facebook page for Fans of Prairie Village says it all "We're not quite Brookside, we're not quite Waldo, but we have nice schools!" I've found PV to be a bunch of Brookside wannabes who want their kids to go to the SM school district - and I count myself in that category!

[chrizow]

absolutely.  the phenomenon of midtown/BKS families fleeing for the suburbs when their kids become school age is a well-documented one.  lenexa and i are just pointing out that it's not the case for all families, and it need not be the case.  

[kcmetro]

absolutely.  the phenomenon of midtown/BKS families fleeing for the suburbs is a well-documented one.  lenexa and i are just pointing out that it's not the case for all families, and it need not be the case. 

True.  But as I was saying yesterday, exceptions don't mean much.  A hundred families moving downtown isn't going to spur a new school.  You need tens of thousands of families (WHITE families, cough cough) moving downtown if you want to see an improvement in the public school system.

[chrizow]

True.  But as I was saying yesterday, exceptions don't mean much.  A hundred families moving downtown isn't going to spur a new school.  You need tens of thousands of families (WHITE families, cough cough) moving downtown if you want to see an improvement in the public school system.

i feel like youre using "downtown" to mean "KCMO between the river and waldo."  confusing.

i'll also respectfully disagree that thousands of "white families" moving into urban KC is a necessary predicate to improving public schools.  i welcome the addition of families of all kinds to KCMO, but i also think that things can get better the way they are - whether by charter schools, improvments to existing KCMO schools, or both. 

[kcmetro]

i feel like youre using "downtown" to mean "KCMO between the river and waldo."  confusing.

i'll also respectfully disagree that thousands of "white families" moving into urban KC is a necessary predicate to improving public schools.  i welcome the addition of families of all kinds to KCMO, but i also think that things can get better the way they are - whether by charter schools, improvments to existing KCMO schools, or both. 

Downtown to me = the river to the plaza.  Yeah there are some nice areas sprinkled in there, but the majority of the RCP corridor isn't the kind of housing or neighborhoods that are going to attract young families.

You sound like you're giving a speech to the NAACP. 

[LenexatoKCMO]

Give them a reason to come downtown, not more reasons to avoid it by snubbing your noses at them.

Who is snubbing there nose in this thread?  The entire discussion is on how to market the core for family living.  

This is true for any major city

Come on Grid we know you know better than this.  No families there in the District eh?  Just because the urban family culture hasn't existed here historically doesn't mean it cant and certainly doesn't mean there isn't precedent all over the country.

[chrizow]

the majority of the RCP corridor isn't the kind of housing or neighborhoods that are going to attract young families.

why do you say that?  do you have extensive knowledge of all the neighborhoods in the RCP area?  which "young families" are we talking about anyway?  

aside from the upscale housing contained in coleman highlands, westside, roanoke, valentine, central hyde park, union hill, southmoreland, etc. - which all compare very favorably to the nicest homes in brookside - there are thousands of nice and tidy smaller homes all over those neighborhoods as well as west plaza, old hyde park, longfellow/dutch hill, north hyde park, south hyde park, volker, etc. that are just as nice as the more average homes found in waldo or BKS.  

i'm getting the impression that you're judging the entirety of midtown from spending a few seconds at the 39th and Main stoplight.

[kcmetro]

why do you say that?  do you have extensive knowledge of all the neighborhoods in the RCP area?  which "young families" are we talking about anyway?  

aside from the upscale housing contained in coleman highlands, westside, roanoke, valentine, central hyde park, union hill, southmoreland, there are thousands of nice and tidy smaller homes all over those neighborhoods as well as west plaza, old hyde park, longfellow/dutch hill, north hyde park, south hyde park, volker, etc. that are just as nice as those found in waldo or BKS.  

i'm getting the impression that you're judging the entirety of midtown from spending a few seconds at the 39th and Main stoplight.

So how affordable is Roanoke and Hyde Park? From the time I've spent there, it's looked pretty expensive.

The types of young families I'm referring to are those from JOCO.

[LenexatoKCMO]

So how affordable is Roanoke and Hyde Park? From the time I've spent there, it's looked pretty expensive.

Right now its still filled with tremendous bargains.  Sure there are some large mansions that sell in the $.5-2m range.  But there are an awful lot of family friendly three story shirtwaists and the like that can be had in the $150-300k range depending on block, and degree of restoration. 

[FangKC]

Let's assume that first Downtown does revive and becomes an entertainment center and attracts young, single people. Condo towers get built. Then let's assume you have families moving into, and living downtown. What will happen is that the families will start complaining about the noise and bar scene--similar to what happens with neighborhoods around Westport.

[chrizow]

here is just a selection of homes in the urban core that should appeal to a broad range of people, including young families, in the 150-275K range:

http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... t-45645262
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... y-48162705
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... t-47962571
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... t-48551589
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... t-48984222
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... d-47550541
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... t-48563358
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... e-46941445
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... t-46471744
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... t-49468768
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... t-49563871
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... t-47593417
http://www.reeceandnichols.com/MO/Kansa ... t-50841121

[LenexatoKCMO]

Let's assume that first Downtown does revive and becomes an entertainment center and attracts young, single people. Condo towers get built. Then let's assume you have families moving into, and living downtown. What will happen is that the families will start complaining about the noise and bar scene--similar to what happens with neighborhoods around Westport.

People complain about shit in cities the world over - amazingly they often stay and live regardless.  I also somehow doubt that every block in the urban core is going to develop into a bar scene any time soon.