How can downtown appeal to more families?

[KCMax]

While I can understand the piling on of KCMetro, I think he does have a point in that while real or not, the perception among suburbanites is that downtown is not nearly as safe for their children as the suburbs. It will probably take urban pioneers to take the first step (and I think this is being done) to establish themselves. Others will take notice and be more willing to move their families downtown if they see other families living there.

Its also pretty clear the housing development has not been geared towards families at all. Not many people want to raise their families in lofts near a bar district. I think there are downtown neighborhoods with a ton of potential to be great family neighborhoods - Columbus Park and Westside in particular - but the city hasn't put the kind of investment in those kinds of neighborhoods like it has with whizz bang mega-projects that look sexy in the papers.

Of course, that leads to gentrification and yuppies and the hoods begin to lose their gritty character, yadda, yadda. yadda....

[KCPowercat]

Not easy in this metro full of those who grew up in the burbs or even smaller...probably qik take in migration from other cities where people start doing it and it catches on.....

People growing up here are programmed to think......kids....move to the biggest cheapest house I can find.

Luckily with 70% of the households in KC not having school aged kids, not grabbing that demographic isn't a killer.....although it would be awesome for them to feel at home downtown....just not in my complex

[KCMax]

Not easy in this metro full of those who grew up in the burbs or even smaller...probably qik take in migration from other cities where people start doing it and it catches on.....

People growing up here are programmed to think......kids....move to the biggest cheapest house I can find.

Luckily with 70% of the households in KC not having school aged kids, not grabbing that demographic isn't a killer.....although it would be awesome for them to feel at home downtown....just not in my complex

Good point. The first step in revitalizing downtown is simply acclimating Kansas Citians - many of which are from rural Missouri, Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska - to get used to the idea of downtown being more than just a place for bums. P&L is a great first step in that.

You also make a good point on the demos -and all indications are that the percentage that families take up is going to be shrinking and shrinking. Still, it would be nice to have a diversity of people - young singles, elderly, families. But I realize its a long-term goal.

[beautyfromashes]

Yeah, but if the school options turn around and people start staying in the city and midtown with their families then housing values will soar.  It's a great time to buy a house in the city because they will change the schools and values will go up in direct coorelation.

[kcmetro]

Thanks Max.  Not trying to be an asshole about this.  But I'm around a lot of suburbanites and I hear them talk, and I feel like I have a better grasp of how they view downtown KC as opposed to someone who lives downtown and only hangs out with people who live in the RCP corridor.  I'm not a proponent for the burbs....I'm just trying to offer up an opinion that is more in line with how the majority of suburbanites think and feel about urban KC.

[KCPowercat]

I think we all pretty much know how Mr and Mrs lee summit think of urban KC.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Thanks Max.  Not trying to be an asshole about this.  But I'm around a lot of suburbanites and I hear them talk, and I feel like I have a better grasp of how they view downtown KC as opposed to someone who lives downtown and only hangs out with people who live in the RCP corridor.  I'm not a proponent for the burbs....I'm just trying to offer up an opinion that is more in line with how the majority of suburbanites think and feel about urban KC.

Metro - luckly we don't have to change the minds of all the millions of suburb dwellers in the metro - opening the minds of but a fraction of a single percent could double or tripple DT population.  It doesn't all have to be high rise living in the heart of the office towers either - god knows we have plenty of land to build family-friendly town houses on.  And there are relatively cheap existing single family homes to be bought up and gentrified by the thousands within a two mile radius of DT.  

[butter_breath]

Downtown has always been a destination place, even in the fifties it never appealed to the families. We would always ride the bus downtown but made sure we were home before dark. Condos and bars don't appeal to families, great school districts, safe parks and views other than cement do.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Condos and bars don't appeal to families, great school districts, safe parks and views other than cement do.

Fortunately the world is filled with hundreds of millions of urban families who don't share your limited experience in this matter.  It may seem foreign to those who have little urban experience outside of KC, but it is possible and prevelant all over the world

[Highlander]

Fortunately the world is filled with hundreds of millions of urban families who don't share your limited experience in this matter.  It may seem foreign to those who have little urban experience outside of KC, but it is possible and prevelant all over the world

Urban areas of the "world", particularly the western world outside the US, and the US itself are two very different places.  From a social science point of view, they are not comparable.  There is a reason why most middle class people live in the burbs and it has to do with an abundance of factors ranging from schools, to hassle, to cost of living and even security.

I tried to buy a house in urban Houston, but at 250$ per sq foot compared to 90$ in the burbs and the likelihood of private school costs on top of that, it just was not worth it. 

[butter_breath]

My experience isn't limited, I grew up in an urban family that went to a urban high school on 20th and Van Brunt. I believe my vision of urban is nowhere close to what you see downtown. I remember when it was full of hookers driving around looking for johns. Downtown isn't for families, and no one should admit that it is. I've lived in 5 countries, 15 states and a few dozen cities or so. Kansas City's jewels are in the burbs not the inter city, or downtown(not districts)as we called it growing up before urban renewal came along back in the 60's.  There's a reason why I stopped going to ball games on 22nd and Brooklyn, the city stopped growing and the schools started to suck. A few new bars and condos are not going to change that.  I'd be afraid to give my kids lunch money fearing the pan handlers would beat it out of them.

[KCPowercat]

Downtown has always been a destination place, even in the fifties it never appealed to the families. We would always ride the bus downtown but made sure we were home before dark. Condos and bars don't appeal to families, great school districts, safe parks and views other than cement do.

After reading your posts I've never been happier to read you were going downtown in the 50's.

There's a reason why I stopped going to ball games on 22nd and Brooklyn, the city stopped growing and the schools started to suck.

This makes total sense.

[trailerkid]

i'd say City Homes in the Rivermarket are about as Midwestern family-friendly as you can get considering design, parking, micro-neighborhood around it.

TONS of families on the East Coast live in apartment and condos. it's just a cultural thing that people here don't understand-- the same as they don't understand walking or taking public transit to get somewhere.

[FangKC]

The demographic for downtown is 18-35. I don't see it as a place families are going to move.  Go for the demo that works.

[chrizow]

familes have been living in the westside, columbus park, northeast, midtown, longfellow/beacon hill area, etc. for decades, and continue to do so.  

there's not much reason for a family to live inside the loop or the xroads, although they could do it if they wanted.  plenty of kids grow up in lofts or apartments in larger cities.  for that matter, kids are growing up in apartment buildings all over this city, though i imagine most of these families would prefer a single-family dwelling, which KC of course has in spades.

families and kids live in every neighborhood in this city.  what you all are really talking about in terms of "family-friendly" is "would a white, middle or upper class family live here," which is just sad.  the south plaza/brookside/waldo area has as many kids of all ages as any area of JoCo or lee's summit.  south hyde park, where we live, has a ton of kids and families.  most i'm sure go to public school, some go to private school.  some urban families hold their breath to get into acadamie lafayette, some spring for JoCo, other urban families leave for grandview or raytown.  everyone has to do what they think is right, but i feel that there is a growing contingent of people willing to give urban living with families a go.  

[aknowledgeableperson]

Forunately there are quite a few quality choices that cost a small fraction of Pembroke - otherwise brookside and Waldo would have depopulated years ago.  Lots and lots of people can afford it - they just choose to pay high suburban taxes instead.

Yes, there are choices, instead of Rockhurst and Pembroke for high school such as Miege and O'Hara and of course the Catholic grade schools plus St. Mark's(?) on Main.  And a few select charter schools.  Funny thing though, there are many in the burbs who do pay the taxes and also send their kids to Pembroke and Barstow (more expensive than Rockhurst, Sion, and St. Teresa's - not sure about the Luthern schools).  But if you are talking about downtown living with kids how many three bedroom residences are there to choose from.  And I know there must be some free-standing day care but how many places are there?

With regards to taxes a $300,000 house in Armour Hills had property taxes of $4,000 (7 E 68th) while a $300,000 in Nottingham Forest had property taxes of $3,300 (13825 Craig).

Basically, right now downtown living does not easily accomodate families with children.  It is only when you get the the areas east and west of dt and midtown and south do you find housing choices for families.

[FangKC]

We aren't going to see any significant number of families living inside the Downtown 31st Street/Troost parameters for decades. Yes, there will be some on Union Hill, the Westside, and Columbus Park. You just aren't going to see a large number of people with kids living in urban condos and highrises downtown. Some couples might stay while they have one toddler, but once the kid is school-age, they will go into a house. Hopefully that house will be in a rebuilt Beacon Hill neighborhood--if it ever gets off the ground. The majority of people living in Kansas City have no experience living in older, urban areas around downtown. KC doesn't have the jobs and density downtown to interest families who don't want to drive. In addition, few families here have any interest in living in high-rise apartment towers either.

There are plenty of single people in the 18-35 demographic, and even some empty-nesters, or life-long childless couples who might be interested in living downtown at some point. If we can get 30,000 people living downtown, I think most things will begin to take care of themselves.

When the real estate market recovers, the City must focus on building new housing downtown.  That will be the best investment that can be made.

[knucklehead]

Don't see why anyone wants a bunch of kids downtown.

The families with kids demographic is a shrinking minority in this country. The baby boom aided suburban growth in the 1980s. But that is over.

Downtown should concentrate on its strengths, not chasing some shrinking minority group. The focus should be on young people, middle aged people with no children, and empty nesters. I hear a lot of comments from aging baby boomers about how they want to get out of their suburban house because they are tired of all the maintenance and yard work. They want a place where they can just lock the door and go on two week vacation trips. The consistent negative comment about moving to a condo, is where do I put the kids (and grandkids) when they come to visit? That really doesn't seem like that hard of a problem to solve, but maybe that is something downtown could work on, cheap overnight quarters for visiting family members.

They sell recreational vehicles and harley davidsons to these aging boomers based on psycological fluff (recapturing your youth for motercycles, freedom and "at least I know who slept in my bed last night" for RV's). I suspect the same types of appeals would work for downtown.

Empty nesters are a big demographic for the plaza. One way to make downtown more appealing to empty nestors is to open up an attractive fixed rail link between Downtown, union station, westport and the plaza.

[beautyfromashes]

The focus should be on young people, middle aged people with no children, and empty nesters.

The only problem is you are currently getting the young people but they are 'forced' to move once they have kids.  What's the point in going after a demographic that is unsustainable?  You have no cohesion, it's a constantly circulating change of new people that builds no community or history because they only stay for a few years.  They meet someone, have kids and move.  It's a fad, and fads won't rebuild downtown.

[knucklehead]

The average US household moves about every four to six years. That happens in suburbia to.

I don't see much social cohesion in suburban areas either. If you want cohesion move to a smaller town like Sedalia.

The model for downtown is the Plaza. The plaza seems to do fine without a lot of school kids.

If you want social cohension in downtown, work on social clubs, community projects and communications for the people that live and work there.