Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

[cknab1]

The same thing is happening at Milano in Crown Center.  Since the Hyatt was given the contract to operate Milano, Crayola Caf?, and at that time The Harvest bakery, they have done nothing but cut cost.  An example the Hyatt sent the cuttings from their salads to the Harvest bakery so it was mostly lettuce ribs.  I mentioned it to the Crown Center top brass and their answer was the Bakery is just there for tourists, we are not looking for repeat business.  Gee just completely ignore the 7,000 people that work in the general area and the 235 condo units that are attached to the Crown center complex.  So the bakery closes and all those people that worked there for years were shown the door.  Sad.  Now Big Mama?s is there, at least they run the business themselves.  At Milano, they keep cutting back the hours and keeping minimum staff.  I don?t know how many times we have been at the bar and watched people come up to the unmanned host area and wait and wait then they all leave.  The bartender tries to help, but she is busy doing her own job.  We were there one Sunday afternoon, the manager had cut the staff to 2 people then he left for an hour.  They were still going to be open for another 3 hours.  They missed out on dozens of people waiting to eat there.  It is a beautiful place and could be so great for so many things.  It could be a great spot for First Fridays.  But when you get a corporation running things instead of a local owner cutting cost is always the first impulse.  And nobody cares about what they could have, they just want to get a paycheck and go home.  I like a lot of the people that are there and have been there since Crown Center used to operate the place and it is just sad now, because they want to be busy but they keep getting the rug pulled out from under them. 

[trailerkid]

  I mentioned it to the Crown Center top brass and their answer was the BakeryCrown Center is just there for tourists, we are not looking for repeat business. 

[mlind]

'Destination' areas have more than restaurants.  There also needs to be a mix of interesting retail (not the chains you can find anywhere), theater, etc.  Not living in KC anymore, I don't know if there is public art, outdoor (sidewalk) eating, trees, etc.

[trailerkid]

Crown Center Shops should be renamed Terminal D and a RED BUS stop should be added in front.

[trailerkid]

What I find most alarming about the P+L District is just the utter half-assedness of some of the tenants. It's almost like they just don't treat it like a real location, but a charity or something where the customer should be happy  to even find them open. I don't know if places like Bice, The Mixx, Chefburger, etc. were/are just trying to punish Cordish or just complete asshats.  Closing arbitrarily and then staying open "on event nights" just seems so entirely ridiculous. Yes...there's an arena next door, but you're not located INSIDE the arena. Every time I've ever been down there on a weeknight there will be a small stream of people meandering through the area around Elements looking for places to eat (and there almost ALWAYS tourist types meandering around in the evenings down there). Eventually, they'll settle on Fran's, Chipotle, or Genghis because they aren't any open options in the "casual" courtyard area.  Imagine going to the Plaza and seeing places that just closed because they were slow at the moment. If you treat your P+L location like a special event catering operation that's what it eventually turns into.

[KCPowercat]

A letter to Cordish couldn't hurt.

[KC Sporting Life]

What I find most alarming about the P+L District is just the utter half-assedness of some of the tenants. It's almost like they just don't treat it like a real location, but a charity or something where the customer should be happy  to even find them open. I don't know if places like Bice, The Mixx, Chefburger, etc. were/are just trying to punish Cordish or just complete asshats.  Closing arbitrarily and then staying open "on event nights" just seems so entirely ridiculous. Yes...there's an arena next door, but you're not located INSIDE the arena. Every time I've ever been down there on a weeknight there will be a small stream of people meandering through the area around Elements looking for places to eat (and there almost ALWAYS tourist types meandering around in the evenings down there). Eventually, they'll settle on Fran's, Chipotle, or Genghis because they aren't any open options in the "casual" courtyard area.  Imagine going to the Plaza and seeing places that just closed because they were slow at the moment. If you treat your P+L location like a special event catering operation that's what it eventually turns into.

Absolutely.  Again, if tenants aren't going to take the business seriously and approach their investment as such, I don't think it would be wrong of Cordish to have some stipulation regarding their hours.  The bars and restaurants in the district are not an amenity to the Sprint Center.  It's supposed to revitalize downtown. 

[butter_breath]

Great blog.  You're absolutely right.

Let's break it down even further.  Hypothetical situation:

Let's say that "Restaurant A" serves food till 10pm on a given night.  On one particular night, maybe a Sunday or Monday downtown, it's "slow", and the last reservation shows up at 8:30.  The kitchen urges the server to get the order rung in and then they start to shut down, officially saying they're closed at 9pm.  This allows the service and kitchen staff to get a one hour head start on cleaning up and getting out of there, and they're gone by 10:30, at the same time the last table sat leaves.  But, during that time between 9 and 10pm, let's say another 8 people show up looking for dinner, who are then turned away.  All it would take is to cut your staff back to one server ($3.25 per hr), a bartender ($6 or $7 per hour), a cook (or a salary paid sous chef or kitchen manager, which would not cost against your labor), and a dishwasher ($8-$10 per hour).  There's a manager there, who's on salary, or maybe even the owner, who also doesn't count against payroll in this case.  If you serve those guests, the closing staff probably gets out of there around midnight.  That means that the decision to honor your posted hours cost you an addition 1.5 hours of labor with the staff mentioned above, coming out to an additional $29.  $29.  Seriously, $29.  Even if it cost you an additional 3 hours of labor, you're looking at $60.  

The 8 guests that showed up for a "late" dinner, during the time that's posted on your door as operating hours, will probably spend around $150.  at least.  Probably more depending on the style of the joint.  And this doesn't even figure in the fact that this situation gives said business owner or manager an opportunity to make a new regular, and turn those 8 people into walking billboards for their business.  And then in 6 months, you've got a loyal latenight following.  

This situation happened a lot at the restaurant that used to occupy the space I now lease.  Closing early happened nightly, and I don't remember a single night where no one came in between the time that they closed early, and the time that they were supposed to close.  Every night the bartender or server would regrettably tell disappointed guests they should go down the street to EV.  They always closed early.  Then one day they closed for good.  

Let's say that situation happens every night, and the check average is below average. Your money calculations could be off after you throw in taxes, pay, overtime, morale, etc. If your employees are on the bus line and they miss that last bus and you pay for or give rides home. Your payroll goes up by 10 percent and an hour or so a day in extra electricity will cost also. When is the cut off time? Will you piss off customers if they see that you are still taking customers past hours posted and they fell rejected because you turned them away 20 minutes before your last table left(that came in late)? I'm on salary and I receive overtime pay. Just because someone is in the business doesn't mean they cant receive overtime. It's called half time pay, people that work in the hotel business get screwed hard because of this or their lack of knowledge.  I didn't think this was true that you could get over time pay in the restaurant business (on salary) until the guy I replace received five years back pay at 30 hours a week average.
There is a reason why the chains closed at a certain time and it cut off, or they extended their hours to accommodate late night customers.  

Here's the basics for half time pay;
No. An employer can not pay an employee half time unless the following requirements are met:

1. the employee's hours must fluctuate from week to week;
2. the employee must be salaried and be paid the same each week regardless of the number of hours that the employee works during the week;
3. the fixed amount must be sufficient to provide compensation at a regular rate not less than the legal minimum wage.
4. the employer and the employee must have a clear, mutual understanding that the employer will pay the employee the fixed weekly salary regardless of the hours worked; and
5. the employee must receive a fifty percent overtime premium in addition to the fixed weekly salary for all hours that the employee works in excess of forty during that week.

If the employers often do not follow all of the requirements of this method and their employees are still owed time and one-half for all hours worked over 40 hours

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Employer_brea ... z1CKy4wqdh

I know this is from wiki this was the quickest broken down version I found, but it pretty much sums it up in a nut shell.

[KCPowercat]

None of that changes what sporting posted.

Run your restaurant however you want but I promise you closing earlier than you posted will remove your place from many peoples minds.

[butter_breath]

None of that changes what sporting posted.

Run your restaurant however you want but I promise you closing earlier than you posted will remove your place from many peoples minds.

I never said close early I was adding that maybe it's not a good ideal to take customers after your posted hours.
PS. I don't own a restaurant.
Keep your promises, I don't need them.

[KCPowercat]

He never posted taking diners after posted hours.  Thanks for the info though.

[KC Sporting Life]

The logic in my hypothetical situation definitely can not be applied to every situation.  I'm specifically referring to a place like Peachtree in this case.  In the case of a concept like The Mixx or Latte Land or something more fast-casual, the numbers will be quite a bit different.  Other costs like sales tax should already be accounted for, and would not be affected by the hours of operation.  Utilities are a relatively minor cost of overhead, and should be taken into consideration when determining the hours of your business.

But the main point here, like KCP has stated in his blog, is that it's important for a business to be consistent in order to establish the trust of their clientele.  That means posting your hours of operation and sticking to them.  If you post hours that run kind of late, and then it just never works then I can understand re-evaluating that decision and maybe making a change.  But if you stick to your stated hours, stand behind your product, and manage your cost of goods, labor, overhead, etc. you stand a much better chance of running a successful business. 

I've had this debate with a few other restaurant owners, when it comes to the topic of closing "according to traffic".  I've yet to hear a compelling argument that includes "saving money on labor and utilities".  One person I know very candidly said that if it's slow, he wants to go home to his wife and kids.  I respect that reasoning a lot more, and if you can make your business profitable while also putting your family first, then I can't argue with that.  But if you're having a very difficult time making ends meet and paying your bills, and you turn away a party of 18 like Peachtree did, then that's just careless and irresponsible business practice.

[aknowledgeableperson]

One person I know very candidly said that if it's slow, he wants to go home to his wife and kids.  I respect that reasoning a lot more, and if you can make your business profitable while also putting your family first, then I can't argue with that. 

From what I have been told owning/managing a restaurant means putting in way more than 40 hours a week.  And to go home early is a big draw, especially if the business is fairly successful.  Another reason for closing early from what I have been told is the impression one might have on the business if they come in and no one else is there.  Leads to "What's wrong with this place?"  An additional reason would be weather related and giving the staff time to get home before it gets worse.

FWIW, I come down on the side of sticking to the posted hours.  If, after time, an adjustment is needed then make the adjustment.

[splash]

butter_breath, I can't seem to find anything official (through a google search) in the laws about overtime pay for salaried employees.  Do you happen to have a different link? 

[Highlander]

FWIW, I come down on the side of sticking to the posted hours.  If, after time, an adjustment is needed then make the adjustment.

I would agree.  I think doing otherwise basically says "the customer does not come first".  If business is that bad that you need to close early to save money, I doubt you are still going to be in business a few months down the road anyway.  I worked for a restaurant in South KC while in college and the owner would never contemplate closing early.  In fact, if someone came in 5 or 10 minutes after closing, he would serve them (explaining that certain items might not be available).  That close attention to pleasing customers built a strong clientele; the restaurant was among the KC area's busiest during the time it was open. 

[butter_breath]

butter_breath, I can't seem to find anything official (through a google search) in the laws about overtime pay for salaried employees.  Do you happen to have a different link?  

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/ ... sional.pdf

The way it works for a learned profession (any chef with less than a four year degree is a learned chef) is if you are not in an exec command position and can't hire,fire, give reviews basically making major decisions or total control over your department with out a department exec over riding, but do a job that is basically the same ie. a working chef or chef d cuisine, pastry chef you qualify because you are doing a physical job that a subordinate is doing beside you or could do beside you that is routine in nature, with you or you do their positions on their days off. Basically you do the same physical shit everyday.
The way my job put it to me was since I'm a working learned professional in a salaried position I'm non-exempt/exempt employee because I haven't the final say so certain items, like for example making a vendor selection for contract use they have to pay me overtime.
If I work 65 hours one week they take my weekly salary and divide it by 65 to figure out the hourly rate and divide that in half and that my overtime pay per hour worked over.
If I work 43 hours the same would happen and divide by 43 then 1/2 x hours over and add that to my pay. It's forced overtime to meet the demands of the clientele, my CEO told me that they also use it as a tool to keep my boss inline so I don't get abused by working 80 a week.
The only other way to avoid being paid was to sign a contract stating that specified hours are to be worked. i.e. 50 hours a week, etc. That would mean no overtime unless conditions where set up for compensations like extra pay or comp time.
The guy I replaced hammered them and taught me something new. I've tried to give the overtime back at first because I didn't want the hours and they refused.
My direct boss doesn't fall under the rules because he makes more than 100,000 a year or else he would because he answers to a CEO and a board of directors.

[splash]

Thanks for the additional link, butter_breath.  I was curious as to the regulations because of what my husband does, but I don't think this applies to his position.  Honestly, I'm curious if he's being paid fairly, but have yet to find an accurate way to find out what is average for his position in the KC area.

[trailerkid]

KC(P) picked up on this on Twitter, but the Mixx closes @ 2:30 apparently and someone went there at 2:23 and they were already closed. I'm sorry but . What a POS business.

[KCPowercat]

I think the original poster on twitter posts in here too. It is insane.

[FangKC]

If you want restaurants in the urban core that stay open late, encourage Korean, Indian, and Chinese immigrants to move to Kansas City.

When I lived in New York City, it was the Koreans, Indians, and Chinese that operated their businesses late, or 24-hours, and all the family members worked in the business.