P&L district, Cordish, Retail discussion (from 14th/Main thread)

[DaveKCMO]

unless it's a significant retail catch, i wouldn't call it unexpected.

[bobbyhawks]

unless it's a significant retail catch, i wouldn't call it unexpected.

Maybe if they brought in a celebrity chef concept...

(Momofuku KC???  I can dream, can't I?)

[trailerkid]

unless it's a significant retail catch, i wouldn't call it unexpected.

how do you know what is or isn't expected if it hasn't been announced yet?

considering 1/3 of the plaza just emptied out in the last 2 months, i think everyone needs to chillax with cordish.

[DaveKCMO]

how do you know what is or isn't expected if it hasn't been announced yet?

considering 1/3 of the plaza just emptied out in the last 2 months, i think everyone needs to chillax with cordish.

another restaurant, even if it was a good catch, would be "expected" given the track record so far. we have high expectations for a significant boutique retail presence that were set by cordish, which you are well aware of. the retail block is completely empty, save for jos. a bank, with no other signs of life at this time.

i won't apologize for being sold a bill of goods and expecting what was advertised. we keep hearing "it's coming! more stuff is coming!", so it's not like the marketing has ended or slowed while the economy has slowed around it.

[beautyfromashes]

^ Amazing that you're bitching about the announcement before it's even happened.  I'm tired of the 'the sky is falling' pessimism.

[DaveKCMO]

^ Amazing that you're bitching about the announcement before it's even happened.  I'm tired of the 'the sky is falling' pessimism.

hmm... seems like i'm not the only purveyor of pessimism. i guess it just depends on the topic.

[geeman68]

I too would like to believe Cordish is still working actively on our behalf to lure retailers to the district.  I support the district as much as I am able to and want it to succeed.  I think the movie theater will add a great component as well as Fran's which will add that 24 hour diner niche that the district could use.  I work up at 9th and Grand and there are several housing projects that would be a huge boon if they would get going up near our building (1006 Grand, The Reserve, Pickwick Apts and the old Post Office).  I know it will also help once the large Rivermarket apartments are completed in the old railyards.  I am all about optimism and keep it up as much as possible. 

Cordish, pull a couple Rabbits out of the hat and announce H&M, a cool bookstore and a couple other fun and trendy retailers. 

[KCTigerFan]

There is a little something in real estate called co-tenancy.  This is when a business agrees to locate in a place and will announce/open when other specific businesses are signed adjacent.  This may very well be why there haven't been more announcements.

Also, is any development in North America convincing H&M, Ikea and others to expand right now?  Especially 2nd tier markets? 

another restaurant, even if it was a good catch, would be "expected" given the track record so far. we have high expectations for a significant boutique retail presence that were set by cordish, which you are well aware of. the retail block is completely empty, save for jos. a bank, with no other signs of life at this time.

i won't apologize for being sold a bill of goods and expecting what was advertised. we keep hearing "it's coming! more stuff is coming!", so it's not like the marketing has ended or slowed while the economy has slowed around it.

[KC-wildcat]

we have high expectations for a significant boutique retail presence that were set by cordish, which you are well aware of. the retail block is completely empty, save for jos. a bank, with no other signs of life at this time.

i won't apologize for being sold a bill of goods and expecting what was advertised. we keep hearing "it's coming! more stuff is coming!", so it's not like the marketing has ended or slowed while the economy has slowed around it.

"Being sold a bill of goods."  Give me a break.  When Cordish marketed the concept back in 2005, the retail and residential markets were booming.  Home sales were at all time highs.  The economy was in great shape (at least on the surface).  Cordish was not lying to you.  If they are guilty of anything, it is not forecasting the greatest economic collapse since Jimmy Carter.  

Perhaps you have been a bit out of the loop.  As Bill Clinton would say, "IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID."  Though consumer spending was a bit higher in the last quarter than projected, the retail industry has suffered a stroke.  Almost all chains have frozen expansion, many are closing stores, and many more are merely declaring bankruptcy and closing their doors forever.  

What are you bitching about?  Do you really believe Cordish is lying to you?  Perhaps the economy is playing a role?  Maybe?  I can't believe I'm even having this discussion.  Turn on MSNBC.  Watch 60 minutes.  Read the paper.  Things are bad out there.    

[KCMax]

Tampa is opening a huge IKEA stores in May and Winnipeg just approved plans for an IKEA.

[geeman68]

Lord, if we could land an IKEA downtown in a multi level furnishings departement store, that would be a huge boon.  It would also provide some off set to that damn NFM at the Legends. 

[KCPowercat]

Ikea isn't coming downtown. Ever.

[LenexatoKCMO]

"Being sold a bill of goods."  Give me a break.  When Cordish marketed the concept back in 2005, the retail and residential markets were booming.  Home sales were at all time highs.  The economy was in great shape (at least on the surface).  Cordish was not lying to you.  If they are guilty of anything, it is not forecasting the greatest economic collapse since Jimmy Carter.  

The retail block has been sitting around gathering tumbleweeds since long before the economy went tits up.  Cordish failed to deliver and was then subsequently handed a convenient excuse after the fact as to why it was impossible to deliver and why the taxpayer will have to prop up their failure to lease.  If they had filled the space before the economy went south, we might still be talking about which tennant will close first but at least there would be tennants to talk about. 

[KCPowercat]

Or just complaining new stores were closing. The delay maybe a blessing in disguise considering how many retail chains are failing across the us.

[KC-wildcat]

The retail block has been sitting around gathering tumbleweeds since long before the economy went tits up. 

Was it really that long?  The retail block was built out in 2007.  Economic trouble was on the horizon in mid 2008.  I think that window was a bit smaller than you indicate. 

[chrizow]

Was it really that long?  The retail block was built out in 2007.  Economic trouble was on the horizon in mid 2008.  I think that window was a bit smaller than you indicate. 

many tenants for the Live block were identified or at least strongly rumored well before the block was built out.  it was a game on this forum to look at renderings and floor plans and play "guess where _____ is going to go!!" 

by contrast, news and rumors regarding the retail block have been comparatively very scarce, both before and after the block was actually built.  Cordish had every reason to divulge what they were working on back when the economy was better, and even more reason to do so now that the economy is in the shitter to build some sort of buzz.  it's clear that they just don't have anything.  this is somewhat understandable given the bad economy, but they weren't able to put anything out there before the recession hit either. 

[LenexatoKCMO]

Was it really that long?  The retail block was built out in 2007.  Economic trouble was on the horizon in mid 2008.  I think that window was a bit smaller than you indicate. 

Successful developers have retail tennants committed before a project breaks ground and mostly leased by the time it finishes construction - the fact that the thing sat there completed and entirely vacant long before the retail sector went in the shitter makes it very clear that Cordish wasn't able to pull it off in the first place.  If Cordish had the clout they claimed to have, the block would have had tennants when it was finished.  Also the fact that the retail block fell to one of the last areas of construction focus ought to tell you pretty clearly just how confident they were in being able to pull it off. 

Don't buy the "it's all the economy's fault" excuses Cordish is going to shovel our way as the city keeps picking up the shortfalls for the next decade.  Cordish screwed the pooch on this years before the economy was an issue. 

[KC-wildcat]

by contrast, news and rumors regarding the retail block have been comparatively very scarce, both before and after the block was actually built.  Cordish had every reason to divulge what they were working on back when the economy was better, and even more reason to do so now that the economy is in the shitter to build some sort of buzz.  it's clear that they just don't have anything.  this is somewhat understandable given the bad economy, but they weren't able to put anything out there before the recession hit either. 

I'm not trying to make excuses for Cordish.  They are a sophisticated business group that said the right things to get the voters behind the initiative.  They have not delivered on the retail or residential.  Ok.  I get that.  People are upset.  

But, DTKC is what it is.  It is an unproven district in a second tier market.  Cordish set ambitious projections and made comments to match.  Even in a good economy (which it was when Cordish started the campaign), big player retail tenants were going to be reluctant to enter the market.  It was the slowest portion of the district.  And, now, with the economy...

Now, for those of you who feel victimized by Cordish; who think that the empty retail block is reason to vilanize Cordish; you people have a brain as well.  You could logically look at the DTKC district and realize that it is a risky retail ditrict.  Cordish talks smooth, but reason and rationality should always prevail over smooth talking.  DTKC is an unproven retail district in a second tier market.  I hope for more retail, but I also understand that retail will be driven by residential and residential is driven by the economy.  

It may be empty now.  We may be paying for it now.  But this district will be here for the rest of our lives.  It is part of the infrastructure.  It's here.  It's built.  It's empty.  But, IMO, that's better than being a surface lot full of weeds.  As soon as the economy turns around and people start spending again, tenants will start to appear.  You've got to maintain some perspective.  

[KC-wildcat]

Successful developers have retail tennants committed before a project breaks ground and mostly leased by the time it finishes construction - the fact that the thing sat there completed and entirely vacant long before the retail sector went in the shitter makes it very clear that Cordish wasn't able to pull it off in the first place.  If Cordish had the clout they claimed to have, the block would have had tennants when it was finished.  Also the fact that the retail block fell to one of the last areas of construction focus ought to tell you pretty clearly just how confident they were in being able to pull it off. 

Don't buy the "it's all the economy's fault" excuses Cordish is going to shovel our way as the city keeps picking up the shortfalls for the next decade.  Cordish screwed the pooch on this years before the economy was an issue. 

so what's your point?  Are you saying that it was unwise to subsidize P&L?  Are you saying that had you known the retail portion was going to sit empty, you would not have supported an initiative to replace surface lots with infrastructure? 

Because, this retail block will not sit empty forever.  Tenants will eventually be ready to expand into this market.

[KCMax]

Because, this retail block will not sit empty forever. 

True. We could always use more organic gardens.

I kid, I kid!