P&L Famous Daves being Converted to Old Chicago Pizza

[ColumbusParkian]

Interesting fact: Last night at the Cordish bash they brought in Arthur Bryants to serve food alongside all of the P&L tenants. Maybe a relationship is forming that will bloom into a new location?

[cknab1]

one could only hope.

[mean]

Its also a recession and turnover is natural and should be expected. Legends and the Plaza have both had numerous restaurants come and go the last few years.

Of course turnover is natural and should be expected, particularly when the concepts you bring in suck.

[kboish]

That's the point. If they could pull up, park, go inside, and leave, they probably would. Access is a huge portion of a business, especially a new franchise that nobody knows about.

The place is great, but I am not paying $2 to park on the 5th floor of a parking garage to get something I can get elsewhere.
These are all things that should have been thought of before opening in the first place. If the traffic was up, he'd still have his store there, and this wouldn't be an issue.

Any bet's on how wildly successful it will be in OP? I will go once a week, and park right up front!

This quote (without him knowing it) from the comments sections on the KC star reinforces the point people on this forum were trying to say earlier about chain restaurants DT (the part i bolded).

It seemspeople who like the ability to pull up and park at the door of where they eat just really enjoy that generic taste. They may want venture out and eat at a real restuarant every once in awhile, but for the most part they are going where they know.

[kboish]

and of course these people would never realize they could park for free on the street directly in front of GG w/o paying for parking 90% of the time or park for free a block away and walk the remainder of the time.

poor selection of tenants is what this comes down to

[mean]

I don't get it. If it was really that great, what's wrong with paying $2 to park and have to walk a little bit? Seems a rather insignificant price to pay for greatness.

I think the problem is that it isn't, in fact, great. The guy who wrote that probably doesn't even think it's great. He probably realizes it isn't very good, but what it probably IS, is all you can eat mediocre salty, fatty, sugary crap that you can get elsewhere. My question is, then, why say it is great?

[WSPanic]

Yeah - saying something is "great" and, in the same sentence saying you "can get it elsewhere" doesn't make sense to me.

[kboish]

I totally agree.

[Highlander]

Its also a recession and turnover is natural and should be expected. Legends and the Plaza have both had numerous restaurants come and go the last few years.

Of course turnover is natural and should be expected, particularly when the concepts you bring in suck.

Let's see:

Famous Dave's ...pretty much sucked
Chefburger .... Never went, heard it wasn't bad
Peachtree ... I like the food but it was a stealth restaurant with poor service
Raglan Road ....RIP. I loved this place as a drinking venue. Never tried the food. Capital expenditure was huge though, put them in a big hole.
Ted's ... Ate there once, wasn't bad but not a place I was dying to get back to.
Bice .... Horrible. Anecdotal, but it seems upscale Italian places just struggle nowadays
Genghis Grill ... I hate the Mongolian Grill concept.
I guess at least one Cordish concept bit the dust too, Vinino, but heard that was horrible.

So, yea, most sucked and those that didn't had serious other problems

[FangKC]

I think any restaurant on the second floor at P&L isn't going to do well. Just a hunch. Kansas Citians are just to obese the climb stairs.

Hopefully something more well-capitalized can take over Raglan Road's space, and take advantage of the nice interior.

Does anyone think a noodle place like Blue Koi would do well in P&L? Isn't doesn't have to be Blue Koi, just something similar.

Funny you say that Highlander, upscale Italian places do quite well in New York City. But then, there lots of rich people there.

I think one of the problems Cordish has attracting and keeping tenants is the rent is too damned high. Cordish should think about lowering rents overall in the district until it's full and the businesses are doing well. This is a screwed up economy and many businesses just can't pay high rent right now.

[chingon]

I think any restaurant on the second floor at P&L isn't going to do well. Just a hunch. Kansas Citians are just to obese the climb stairs.

Bullshit. Doesn't seem to stop people in cities with comparable obesity rates like San Antonio, San Diego, New Orleans, Austin, etc.

Repeating something until it sounds true doesn't make it true.

[kboish]

I think one of the problems Cordish has attracting and keeping tenants is the rent is too damned high. Cordish should think about lowering rents overall in the district until it's full and the businesses are doing well. This is a screwed up economy and many businesses just can't pay high rent right now.

You think a landlord would recongnize that. Entice tenants in with low rent (especially in an economic recession), make the place appear full and successful, then jack up the rent. Blows my mind they think they can start off charging exorbitant rents in an uproven retail and entertainment district. Shows there lack of understanding of the area.

[KCMax]

FWIW, a family member of mine was offered very low base rent from Cordish for a retail spot plus a percentage of profits. I'm not that convinced the rent they're demanding is all that high.

They are quite difficult to deal with though.

[KC-wildcat]

I don't get it. If it was really that great, what's wrong with paying $2 to park and have to walk a little bit? Seems a rather insignificant price to pay for greatness.

+1. Parking has a correlation to quality of tenant. If you're in the mood for a generic, uninspired dinner at Applebee's, Famous Dave's, or Mongolian BBQ, are you going to pay $2 and park in a garage a few blocks away?

Or, are you going to keep on driving a few minutes and go to Gates on Main or Applebee's on Southwest Blvd?

Bristol, Capital Grille, on the other hand...

[kboish]

FWIW, a family member of mine was offered very low base rent from Cordish for a retail spot plus a percentage of profits. I'm not that convinced the rent they're demanding is all that high.

They are quite difficult to deal with though.

That's interesting to hear. I wonder if the "difficult to deal with" part lies w/n the contracts themselves or what (hidden increases and complex lawyer lingo w/ fees, etc)? Or is there a difference b/w the rent's they are asking for entertainment venues/restaurants vs retail?

It is pretty disappointing how much empty retail there still is. The coming and goings of restaurants is pretty typical, but the retail has barely filled out. Seems like for that to be successful they would want to build out their residential portion.

[KCMax]

I wonder if the "difficult to deal with" part lies w/n the contracts themselves or what (hidden increases and complex lawyer lingo w/ fees, etc)? .

Yes.

I believe some of the failed restaurants have accused Cordish of the same. Now they probably had problems of their own as well, but I think there is a kernal of truth to those accusations.

OTOH, they should hire their own lawyer to go over this stuff too.

[KCPowercat]

Given the economy its not surprising an unproven area can't fill retail....hell the plaza is having problems.

The good news is the infrastructure is there to fill....we could be sitting with a big hole in the ground like st louis is.

[bobbyhawks]

The Raglan Road space was in talks to be filled again, but it sounds like a bunch of issues including Raglan's legal dispute with Cordish have prevented this from following through. I haven't heard anything about it lately, so I know nothing of the status or whether they could keep the interior intact, but this seems to be a theme with Cordish. Obviously, we only hear about the problems and not about the good relationships, but it doesn't sound like there are many good relationships.

[KCPowercat]

Is RR space where kchopps was talked about filling?

[ColumbusParkian]

KCPowercat, my sources told me they were more interested in the former Famous Daves. Can you blame them? I think for the vast majority of concepts, being attached to the courtyard is a recipe for disaster!