Cosentino's Grocery downtown

[PumpkinStalker]

[trailerkid]

Yeah make sure you pass on our thanks too.  Ridiculous. Let's not support someone investing downtown because soup might be five cents higher.

I am glad I don't know these people.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but it is still the person's choice to shop wherever he/she wants and I don't think you should get bashed if you choose to spend money elsewhere. I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the transportation infrastructure atrocities committed downtown over the last 40 years (and still being done today) are a big part of why people can live there and feel no attachment or pride in their neighborhoods. When you can zip to a discount grocer-anchored strip center in the Northland with the same ease as driving to your flashy downtown store it is both a blessing and a curse.

Not everyone downtown was going apeshit about not having a 30,000 sq foot upscale-designed grocer in the CBD. Did anyone say they would move away from downtown without a store like this? Would the lack of a large grocer stop development of condo rehabs? This site went round and round about how many wanted Quick Trip/7Eleven style convenience stores dotting the urban landscape instead of a large grocer. I always interpreted the big grocer as a pretty ho-hum, suburban-influenced desire. WITH THAT SAID: it's a pretty unreal amenity down there. There is no denying that store has added a ton downtown and to that corner. HOWEVER-- to borrow a phrase from Funk-- it's still a "plasma screen while the toilet is broken" issue for the downtown area. That gets us away from the generally positive impact of this store so I apologize in advance, but it needed to be said. I'm not saying the money should've/could've went to x,y, and z because it was the right thing to do at the time. I will just end saying that all the "fancy" improvement downtown will not mean anything if there is not a concerted effort to attract much, much more private investment in terms of employment and housing (the foundation or plumbing, toiletry of the area). Mayor Barnes (AND THE COUNCIL) knew this and that's why she was trying like hell to get corporate HQ, housing, and amenities down there at such an aggressive pace-- slowing down on the foundation issues will turn downtown and all its plasma screens into a major liability (it is already happening to an extent).

[mean]

I will just end saying that all the "fancy" improvement downtown will not mean anything if there is not a concerted effort to attract much, much more private investment in terms of employment and housing (the foundation or plumbing, toiletry of the area).

Then the question becomes, was the "fancy" a bad idea from the beginning? Or do we need more "fancy" before we get to the private investment threshold? If so, how much? And at what point, if any, do we give up and say, well, we've maxed out our credit cards on plasma screens and rocket shoes while the roof collapsed around us?

There really aren't any easy answers, I'm afraid.

[trailerkid]

Then the question becomes, was the "fancy" a bad idea from the beginning? Or do we need more "fancy" before we get to the private investment threshold? If so, how much? And at what point, if any, do we give up and say, well, we've maxed out our credit cards on plasma screens and rocket shoes while the roof collapsed around us?

There really aren't any easy answers, I'm afraid.

The hole for Downtown's grave was so deep that it's hard to see many of the MKB-era development projects as detrimental. I'm not going to point the finger at the previous administration and council for trying to fix up our dead downtown because they had the right idea even if the execution was poor at times. Even if you had someone that ignored the dead downtown development mess and fixed the existing infrastructure in the city (which isn't happening with "smart with the money" politicians and wouldn't have happened with/without our flat screen era) there would still be A LOT of issues with outmigration, dwindling property tax revenue and general urban blight. We're talking about rescuing an urban city that is failing on almost every level. How do you fix it? Has any American downtown in the same shoes as KC truly come back from the dead?

Downtown was a punchline. It's not anymore and that is a small victory in a long war. There is still not enough private investment to sustain what's there and reach the point where we need to be for it to grow. Letting downtown fail and chalking up the already completed work as "another city mistake" is such a self-loathing KCMo. thing to do, but there are thousands that want to do just that. The general negativity towards change and ensuing "I told you so" moments are truly self-fulfilling. There's a reason TonysKC is the most read blogger.

I used the word toiletry wrong...hmm... 

[KCPowercat]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but it is still the person's choice to shop wherever he/she wants and I don't think you should get bashed if you choose to spend money elsewhere.

I disagree.  The neighborhood needs to support those who invest in their  neighborhood...it benefits all interests and I have no problem calling somebody out for it.

I always interpreted the big grocer as a pretty ho-hum, suburban-influenced desire.

Can't it just be a residential desire? 

[mean]

We're talking about rescuing an urban city that is failing on almost every level. How do you fix it? Has any American downtown in the same shoes as KC truly come back from the dead?

I'm not disagreeing with you really, or saying I told you so. I'm basically asking the same question: How do you fix it? It's a big question.

[bbqboy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/31/nyreg ... odayspaper

[ignatius]

I was in Consentino's yesterday for lunch with a friend from Philly and he commented that the shelves are not efficiently used for an urban store that has less space.  Urban stores have higher shelves and never stock the same item more than one row wide.  You can then stock a much greater variety of items.  There are many cases where they have the same item stocked side-by-side even though there were many of the same behind it.  That is very inefficient and gyp's downtowners with more variety.   

I was hoping to get Zicam throat spray (a miracle cure/prevention for common cold BTW), but they only had the nasal kind for allergies, not colds.  If they more efficiently stocked the shelves, they could carry it.

[PumpkinStalker]

This might have more to do with stockroom size.  When your shelf row can only hold 8 items and it comes in a case of 16, you end up with a crap ton of backstock that you have to find a place for, then remember to rotate in your backstock before putting out a new case to keep product fresh.

[ignatius]

^I dunno, I'd guess this is more about inefficiency.  Check out Duane Reade stores in NYC, practically no stockroom but massive selection for the size of the store.

[lock+load]

And working back stock takes a lot of time that is more efficiently spent working new stock and getting the whole case on the shelf.

Duane Reade and stores like CVS and Walgreens work with warehouses that break the cases down in the warehouse and ship items as pieces rather than cases.  Consentinos works with AWG and they are set up for suppliying large stores, not corner markets.

[ignatius]

They should still find a way to more efficiently use those shelves.  They could make the shelves taller and have additional stock above.

If there's a will, there's a way.

[SWFan]

That's actually a fairly ridiculous statement.  The prices there are not significantly higher than, say, Hy-Vee or Price Chopper.  Not only that, they seem to have sales a lot.  I don't know if this is just a "first month open" type deal, but almost everything I bought today was on sale (yogurt, cottage cheese, triscuits, etc.  staple type stuff.)

I just don't understand where that perception comes from.  Even the prepared food isn't any more expensive than the Hen House or Sunfresh where I used to shop.

Trust me, I've talked til I'm blue in the face, for some reason they seem stuck on price differences.  I'm close to getting a list of stuff they normally buy and going there and buying the stuff, then driving to Hyvee at Englewood & N. Oak (where they normally go) and buying the same stuff and doing the comparison for them.

[lock+load]

They should still find a way to more efficiently use those shelves.  They could make the shelves taller and have additional stock above.

If there's a will, there's a way.

That takes time for someone to work all that back stock.  Plus, it looks like crap and I assume they are trying to keep the place looking neat and tidy.

Of course it'd be great to offer more selection, but you cannot expect them to greatly increase their inventory carrying costs and labor costs just so they can have every variety of Zicam and green beans.

[KCPowercat]

Cvs is 3 blocks away for medicine.

[PumpkinStalker]

In any case, I haven't noticed much inefficiency of shelf usage.  But from 7 years with Hy-Vee, I know that working backstock and rotating is a pain in the ass.  Even more so when you have 16 year old kids who don't do it right, then you have customers coming up and telling you as a manager that they found a 2 month old expired whatever.  

And for some reason, (suburban) grocery stores are the subject of some of the most brutal hatred of any retail store.  By God, if you change one single thing about the location of a product people let you know!  And they will bitch more about it than anything else going on in their lives.  Not sure why it's such a hot button.  And if something is too high for the little old ladies, they mail hate letters to the store.  Hopefully not an issue much DT.

Also, when you open a new store, you build in the ability to expand your offering.  You create two rows of something knowing that you then have the ability to expand for whatever the market is asking for.  If you have two rows of ranch dressing, and you get 5 requests for some raspberry cream shit, you have the ability to easily shrink a row of Ranch.  Otherwise, you have to try and get rid of a poor selling item to make the space.  Space doesn't just magically appear, it's a strategy game.  There are many different reasons and I'll bet you'll see HUGE changes at this store over the course of their first year open.

[ignatius]

^That makes sense.  Hopefully they'll use it more efficiently as they figure things out.  They are probably more accustomed to the logistics of a suburban store and haven't attempted to adjust for an urban store with less space.

But better to ask than make assumptions of their stocking logistics.  Progress is never made if you assume something can't be done when in the end it can be done.

[LenexatoKCMO]

The only area I noticed much of a letdown in selection was the frozen food section.  There isn't much choice for ice cream.  They only have four kinds of frozen juice (two of which are cocktail mixers  :D).  But I think I can live with those restrictions no problem given the other advantages.  Buying less ice cream certainly won't hurt me a bit.  

[trailerkid]

I get that people like to debate this stuff, but here is the contact page for Cosentino's if anyone wants to give them suggestions directly about specifics like shelf size/assortment/carrying a product, etc.

http://www.cosentinos.com/ContactUs.aspx

[DiggityDawg]

There isn't much choice for ice cream.

My guess - they want you to use their gelato section instead.