KCRag Forum

kboish wrote:If streetcar runs to Isle of Capri, I'd be willing to bet that the Isle gets fully redeveloped with a hotel.

they're the only KC casino without one!

DaveKCMO wrote:

kboish wrote:If streetcar runs to Isle of Capri, I'd be willing to bet that the Isle gets fully redeveloped with a hotel.

they're the only KC casino without one!

Hollywood Casino doesn't have a hotel element either, although part of the deal is they are supposed to add one.

How does St Louis have a casino in their downtown area if the law says they have to be "on water" or built into a holding pond? Must be some loophole.

GRID wrote: No way. Casinos absolutely suck. Have you been to a downtown area that has casinos? Detroit, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore? Where the casinos are happen to be the most depressing areas of the downtowns. They do nothing for the vibrancy of the city, actually they hurt it.

In response to the St. Louis hit. The Lumiere Place Casino and Hotel on the Riverfront in Downtown STL really screwed us (I'm From STL). They promised to redevelop the North Riverfront and instead of doing so, they said that the ran out of money. So Casinos are very bad for Downtowns because they promise so much and deliver less than they promised.

KCLover wrote:

DaveKCMO wrote:

kboish wrote:If streetcar runs to Isle of Capri, I'd be willing to bet that the Isle gets fully redeveloped with a hotel.

they're the only KC casino without one!

Hollywood Casino doesn't have a hotel element either, although part of the deal is they are supposed to add one.

How does St Louis have a casino in their downtown area if the law says they have to be "on water" or built into a holding pond? Must be some loophole.

The Riverfront. Lumiere Place- The Biggest Scam for Downtown STL.

Chris Stritzel wrote:

GRID wrote: No way. Casinos absolutely suck. Have you been to a downtown area that has casinos? Detroit, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore? Where the casinos are happen to be the most depressing areas of the downtowns. They do nothing for the vibrancy of the city, actually they hurt it.

In response to the St. Louis hit. The Lumiere Place Casino and Hotel on the Riverfront in Downtown STL really screwed us (I'm From STL). They promised to redevelop the North Riverfront and instead of doing so, they said that the ran out of money. So Casinos are very bad for Downtowns because they promise so much and deliver less than they promised.

Why would a casino want to develop beyond their property? They have zero interest in doing that. Casinos are 100% self sustained properties with big walls and no windows for a reason. Urban casinos are nothing but huge dead zones that kill vibrancy for many blocks around. The hotel tower has no interaction with the street. Everybody drives to them and parks in their huge garages and you never ever see them. They are inside the casino property. The casino is designed to keep people inside those walls. The only people outside them are the very low income people that find enough money to take a bus to a casino to throw away that money or the occasional tourist walking from a nearby hotel. Not to mention casinos in general are just tacky and ugly.

Downtown KC has come way too far for it to even think about putting a casino down there. Having said that, it would be nice to at least improve the one that is "close" to downtown. I wouldn't run the streetcar to it though. The casino cruiser bus is fine. The streetcar needs to cross the river and run to downtown NKC, not to the casino.

Speaking of StL, what ever happened to the bottle district? I don't think it was tied to Lumiere Place. I was there recently and the north side along the river just north of downtown is gentrifying nicely. Slowly, but it's happening at least.

GRID wrote:The streetcar needs to cross the river and run to downtown NKC, not to the casino.

NKC isn't interested, so that isn't go anywhere for the time being.

GRID wrote:

Chris Stritzel wrote:

GRID wrote: No way. Casinos absolutely suck. Have you been to a downtown area that has casinos? Detroit, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore? Where the casinos are happen to be the most depressing areas of the downtowns. They do nothing for the vibrancy of the city, actually they hurt it.

In response to the St. Louis hit. The Lumiere Place Casino and Hotel on the Riverfront in Downtown STL really screwed us (I'm From STL). They promised to redevelop the North Riverfront and instead of doing so, they said that the ran out of money. So Casinos are very bad for Downtowns because they promise so much and deliver less than they promised.

Why would a casino want to develop beyond their property? They have zero interest in doing that. Casinos are 100% self sustained properties with big walls and no windows for a reason. Urban casinos are nothing but huge dead zones that kill vibrancy for many blocks around. The hotel tower has no interaction with the street. Everybody drives to them and parks in their huge garages and you never ever see them. They are inside the casino property. The casino is designed to keep people inside those walls. The only people outside them are the very low income people that find enough money to take a bus to a casino to throw away that money or the occasional tourist walking from a nearby hotel. Not to mention casinos in general are just tacky and ugly...

Speaking of StL, what ever happened to the bottle district? I don't think it was tied to Lumiere Place. I was there recently and the north side along the river just north of downtown is gentrifying nicely. Slowly, but it's happening at least.

The Bottle District died because of the 2008 Stock Crash and it was never brought back to life. The Lumiere thing though was a project called Lumiere Phase 2. It was supposed to be like Ballpark Village and the Bottle District but much smaller. The Riverfront though is slowly coming back but plans to fully redevelop it have come and gone.

DaveKCMO wrote:

GRID wrote:The streetcar needs to cross the river and run to downtown NKC, not to the casino.

NKC isn't interested, so that isn't go anywhere for the time being.

Bummer. I know they are looking at extending to Berkley Park. Hopefully they are doing that with keeping in mind a river crossing in the future. It doesn't make a lot of sense to extend it east of Heart of America Bridge much. Maybe put a stop on the west end of the park so the streetcar can easily cross the river rather heading to the industrial no man's land of the east bottoms.

If NKC doesn't want to be a part of it, KCMO could at least build a transit/pedestrian bridge to Harlem. Then the city would basically open up a whole new area to re-develop opposite the river from the River Market into a large mixed use district. If KCMO gets the streetcar that far, I'm sure NKC would want to see it extended. If not, keep in the city limits and take it up to Briarcliff with a stop at the Downtown Airport.

GRID wrote:I know they are looking at extending to Berkley Park. Hopefully they are doing that with keeping in mind a river crossing in the future.

i can confirm first hand that the riverfront work will not preclude crossing the river.

I like this idea....I like this idea even more if isle of Capri pays for that piece of the line out of their own pocket

KCPowercat wrote:I like this idea....I like this idea even more if isle of Capri pays for that piece of the line out of their own pocket

pretty sure that's the only way it will work.

DaveKCMO wrote:

KCPowercat wrote:I like this idea....I like this idea even more if isle of Capri pays for that piece of the line out of their own pocket

pretty sure that's the only way it will work.

So, essentially, it would run to the west end of the park unless Isle of Capri pays for a longer line?

The streetcar needs 16 feet of clearance.

The Front St bridge is currently 15.5 feet. Is that close enough or is the number 16 feet minimum?
There's also the old underpass that's now a bike trail with plenty of width to add track too as an option.

Rough guess is to get from the west end of the park to Isle of Capri is about $60 million

Boat in a Moat.
Train in Vain.

^^^ EL Dorado's Casino Hotel Tower in Reno and Shreveport(El Dorado owns Isle of Capri).
Not really something we would want here.

Five Light reference from the City Manager: https://www.facebook.com/northeastnewsk ... 478440942/

(and lots of other Cordish housing talk)

That a bit of a weird conversation. It's disappointing that none of the objectors seem to have any competence on how to lower housing costs.

Getting rid of zoning and parking requirements would do far more for affordable downtown housing than anything they said there. The shade thrown at the midland was weird as well.

It'd be different if there weren't surface lots sitting all around downtown. Kansas City has no housing problem. No one has a right to live in power and light.

Get rid of parking requirements and build build build. This is the city that can't get East village figured out. That knowingly let's developers bank property. It's infuriating how uneducated they are on urban planning.

WoodDraw wrote:It'd be different if there weren't surface lots sitting all around downtown. Kansas City has no housing problem. No one has a right to live in power and light.

Get rid of parking requirements and build build build. This is the city that can't get East village figured out. That knowingly let's developers bank property. It's infuriating how uneducated they are on urban planning.

Let us also never forget that it was Shields that championed the Westport development moratorium and it is Shields who thinks parking should be required to be bundled in rent. Both absolutely detrimental to affordable housing. She cares nothing about true affordability. She saw an opportunity to shit on an easy target and took it with hopes of grabbing a few political points.

WoodDraw wrote:That a bit of a weird conversation. It's disappointing that none of the objectors seem to have any competence on how to lower housing costs.

Getting rid of zoning and parking requirements would do far more for affordable downtown housing than anything they said there. The shade thrown at the midland was weird as well.

Getting rid of zoning has little connection to affordable housing. We don't want every project to be contentious.
There's room to rethink zoning without doubt but no zoning could make things very bad for downtown.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texa ... 171688.php

And to limit costs for parking within project we need different parking requirements, not none. No parking requirements puts all the power on developers and banks. They could build as many spots as wanted. You want to start looking at parking maximums as a requirement. A maximum that affects only the largest projects could be a good start.