Poll: Power & Light District Dress Code

[aknowledgeableperson]

this I really don't understand....

http://www.kmbc.com/news/21666033/detail.html

There are complaints and you are asked to join to help and DECLINE?

The Rev. Sam Mann of the SCLC said the problem with the oversight board is, "It's a sham."

Mann said the city has to first deal with the violations of the law taking place in the entertainment district. After that is cleared up, Mann said he believes that would be the time to consider creating the oversight panel.

[KCPowercat]

yeah I read the link I posted already.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Given your question it appeared you didn't understand or know why the decline happened.  Especially with decline in capitals.

[KCPowercat]

his 'reason' makes no sense.  Either you want to work to make it better or don't care enough to get involved...I guess we see where these 3 organizations stand.

[mister816]

Mister...I'd be pissed for sure. But were you saying that Michael Jackson was singled out as a pedophile because he was black?

LAMO, i actually laughed out loud.  No I'm not saying that, I was saying that 3 people say something about him and the world believes it, but hundreds of people say something about the pnl and no one believes it.

[mister816]

and for everyone saying that the dress code not racial... IT IS

The dress code is written by looking at what urban youth are wearing at that moment and then saying it is not allowed.  if young black men didn't wear bandanas and du rags then they wouldn't be out of dress codes... the same thing with sports jerseys, (in some cases ball caps), baggy jeans and plain white t-shirts.  I don't dress like that but people from my culture do because it is a part of my culture just as the confederate flag is a part of southern culture, but I'll be damned if the last time i was out there i didn't see a guy with a confederate flag on his had and no one batted an eye. 

I understand that they want to keep out a certain element and I agree with it.  I don't wanna see the PNL turn into westport but there has to be a better way.  I don't know what it is, but I'm not getting paid to figure that out.

btw it's when i say hundreds, it's not a guess.  It is what it is.  I assume that most people in here don't regularly listen to 103.3fm but there was a few days where people got to call in and complain about their experience and you'd be shocked at the amount of calls that they received... and those are just the people who spoke up, just imagine how many people didn't get through or just didn't speak up.

[KCPowercat]

and for everyone saying that the dress code not racial... IT IS

The dress code is written by looking at what urban youth are wearing at that moment and then saying it is not allowed.  if young black men didn't wear bandanas and du rags then they wouldn't be out of dress codes... the same thing with sports jerseys, (in some cases ball caps), baggy jeans and plain white t-shirts.

#1 - It's not a "racist" dress code in my opinion, it's against a style/attitude that is worn by people off ALL COLORS...if anything, it's a sexist dress code.  #2 - Urban youth are all black? 

  I don't dress like that but people from my culture do because it is a part of my culture just as the confederate flag is a part of southern culture, but I'll be damned if the last time i was out there i didn't see a guy with a confederate flag on his had and no one batted an eye. 

I'm confused by this...what are you trying to get across here?  I'm all for banning flag clothing of any flag.  Hacksaw Jim Duggin could be denied access to P&L as long as it's around as far as I'm concerned.

I understand that they want to keep out a certain element and I agree with it.  I don't wanna see the PNL turn into westport but there has to be a better way.  I don't know what it is, but I'm not getting paid to figure that out.

Seriously?  You agree with keeping out the "gangsta" style but dress code you don't agree with?  Is this real?

btw it's when i say hundreds, it's not a guess.  It is what it is.  I assume that most people in here don't regularly listen to 103.3fm but there was a few days where people got to call in and complain about their experience and you'd be shocked at the amount of calls that they received... and those are just the people who spoke up, just imagine how many people didn't get through or just didn't speak up.

radio call-in shows are not really good judgments of society...if it was I'd probably jump off a cliff after about 15 minutes of listening to Rush or Fox News or whatever.


hey, I understand your passion....but dress codes weren't discovered by the P&L nor enforced unfairly by them, I've been denied access to a club for reasons I couldn't understand....I'm all for kicking every SOB that's ever denied access to any customer based on race, creed, etc....but to say the dress code as stated is racist is crazy...is Bodywerks Phase II dress code racist? 

I hope they fix this but I have a feeling this has become a "cordish is X" in this community and no matter what they do, people will keep attacking...perception is reality right???  I wish those organizations complaining and marching would join in and try to help instead of calling it a "sham" and washing their hands in trying to make it better.

[mister816]

lol do you just look at the words that I type or do you actually attempt to understand what i'm saying.  I said urban youth because hispanic youth and black youth go hand and hand in most cases which I dont expect you to understand because you are neither.

the whole flag rebuttal...  seriously?  if a black power fist was popular amongst young black youth then you'd better believe that it wouldn't be allowed in the pnl.

i agree with the them trying to keep out thugs, but all people dressed in our cultural fashion is not a thug... yes this is real, there is a difference btwn people who dress in urban clothing and a "gangsta"  but I don't expect you to understand that either

and so on and so on... look, i don't want to sit here and try to make you see my pov because there is no way that you can... I've been going through this since i was 18 trying to get into orlandos and some clubs in westport, so i'm gonna see things a little differently.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine just happens to be that they dont want me there because I'm a "gang banger"

[KCPowercat]

If you don't expect me to understand any of this, why do you continue?  I seriously don't even know what you are trying to say here....you agree they should try and keep out an attitude but then turn around and tell us we don't understand for saying the same thing?

Nobody here is saying all urban youth are minorities.  Nobody here is saying everybody of color dresses like a "thug". Nobody here is saying cultural fashion equals looking like a thug.  Oh wait, you are.

For the last time here is what I'm saying.  bars have always have dress codes.  these dress codes have never been enforced 100% fairly every time.  I wish that never happened.....living in reality I know this does happen whether or not Cordish runs the place or whether or not tax money paid for building it.  I would hope if this is really a big issue, community leaders would join together to help fix it rather than just say it's a sham and not join in to help...them doing that sends the message that they really don't find this to be a big enough problem to waste their time trying to fix.

4M people have been to the P&L per year...100's have felt they were denied access unfairly?  Ever go to the old XO or other westport "clubs"?  I saw a much higher denial rate than that.....and with clubs that target almost exclusively black youth having the same dress codes, I'm not buying this is a "racial" dress code.  Where are the marches on Oak Park Mall?  Independence Center?  Plaza?  Zona Rosa?  

i hope beyond hope a bar never denies anyone here access for any unfair reasons....but knowing bouncers....that's an unrealistic hope.

[aknowledgeableperson]

his 'reason' makes no sense.  Either you want to work to make it better or don't care enough to get involved...I guess we see where these 3 organizations stand.

Makes no sense?

Makes plenty with just one word - "sham".  Plus, I take that he believes Cordish will not actually respond or be serious until forced to by a court determining if there is discrimination.  Wants to make it better but Cordish no.

[shaffe]

The dress code can be summed up in one of those old high school word problems.

All (most) thugs wear X type of clothes.
Not all people who wear X type of clothes are thugs.

What is the best way to eliminate thugs?  Filter by utilizing the common traits - clothing.

Forgive the crassness of the above example, but that is exactly what the P&L dress code, and any dress code across America, is doing.  Any private establishment in the United States has the right to establish a dress code and enforce it, Cordish is exercising that right.  Don't forget that the dress code that Cordish is responsible for is when the Live block is roped off, essentially turning into an outdoor bar.  Dozens, if not hundreds, of establishments across the metro probably have virtually identical dress codes but do not draw the ire of this one.

[mister816]

Makes no sense?

Makes plenty with just one word - "sham".  Plus, I take that he believes Cordish will not actually respond or be serious until forced to by a court determining if there is discrimination.  Wants to make it better but Cordish no.

LAMO, yea... me getting turned away when I wasn't wearing "X" type clothes is a scam...

[im2kull]

and for everyone saying that the dress code not racial... IT IS

The dress code is written by looking at what urban youth are wearing at that moment and then saying it is not allowed. 

Give me a camera and I'll give you a hundred photo's of WHITE SUBURBAN YOUTH dressed that same way.

Its all about perception, and to be quite frank...your perception on what constitutes Racism is off base.
(No offense, its purely opinion, and I enjoy reading your contributions here)

You see;
It doesn't matter how "Racial" the dress code sounds.  Racial slurs themselves are nothing more than a bunch of powerless, otherwise meaningless words constructed by thoughtless humans to evoke thoughtless reactions, are they not?  Written language itself cannot be interpreted to suggest a real life "meaning", and Words themselves hold no weight untill they're applied (in this case by bouncers).  Blaming ANY amount of discrimination directly on a worded dress code is therefore quite ignorant...that is, unless the ABC's are coming to life and attacking all these disgruntled folk themselves.


-Geeze...I gotta quit stayin up all night, hope this makes sense to everyone! 
-->Simply put, Actions speak louder than any words.  It takes someone to create a negative action, so don't blame a steadfast dress code when your true "beef" lies with someone else (sure, they might be 345lbs, have 20 tattoo's and cigarette burns...but I'm sure they're not That hard to reason with!)

[KCMax]

The main support of Cordish and the dress code policy seems to be "this applies to dress, not race, therefore some white people are being affected, and its not affecting ALL black people, therefore its not racism"

That suggests a very, very narrow definition of racism.

There are two kinds of legal discrimination IIRC. There is de jure discrimination - that which is explicitly against a minority race. Most Cordish defenders are saying this dress code clearly does not fall into that category. They are 100% correct. There is nothing on the face of the dress code that says "discriminate against black people."

But then there is de facto discrimination. These are policies which are benign on the face of it, but have the effect of disproportionately affecting a minority race. Some people argue that our drug laws are de facto discrimination - crack cocaine (used much more by poor African-Americans) carries a much heavier penalty than the equally dangerous pure cocaine (used more by affluent whites). There is nothing facially that suggests blacks are discriminated against - white people can use crack cocaine and not all black people use crack cocaine. However, the fact is, the policy has disproportionately affected black people.

This dress policy is targeted at dress used heavily by young African-Americans. Do all African-Americans dress this way? No. Do some white people dress this way? Yes. But that doesn't mean it still can't be racist.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Makes no sense?

Makes plenty with just one word - "sham".  Plus, I take that he believes Cordish will not actually respond or be serious until forced to by a court determining if there is discrimination.  Wants to make it better but Cordish no.

You illustrate why the Rev's response itself is a "sham" - nothing that has hit the public yet amounts anywhere near enough fact to have a snowball's chance in hell of advancing anywhere in any court.  So if the Rev. is waiting for the courts to act before he is willing to get positively involved in a solution, he is going to have one hell of a wait on his hands. 

[KCPowercat]

almost every 'club' has these same exact dress codes...even those that target to the black community almost exclusively...kinda shoots a hole in any defacto racial dress code for one bar district.

[mudjack]

I'm neither African-American nor young, but if I were I would be pissed that with all of the problems of the urban core, the community leaders are taking a stand on this issue. Being able to wear a white t-shirt might not be a priority. Crime, unemployment, poverty, education, etc. should be priorities, but they are really tough issues.

Cordish should definitely enforce the dress code uniformly. If they are not doing so, they should be taken to court.

Whatever Cordish does, I don't think the issue will go away.

Call me cynical.

[KCMax]

almost every 'club' has these same exact dress codes...even those that target to the black community almost exclusively...kinda shoots a hole in any defacto racial dress code for one bar district.

I'm not sure how that justifies Cordish's behavior (assuming they are being racist). Everyone else is racist so its okay for us to be racist too?

[KCPowercat]

that's the point, they aren't.  Now are some of the bouncers in p&l and every club?? I'll buy that.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I'm not sure how that justifies Cordish's behavior (assuming they are being racist). Everyone else is racist so its okay for us to be racist too?

I think the course of logic would be . . . how can a dress code policy not be racist when it is applied by black owned businesses with exclusively black clientelle yet be racist when applied at a mixed race venue?  Same basic policy.  Same basic purpose.  Same basic effect.