Jan 9, 2007 Tenant Announcement

[Gretz]

Blake is right, this definitely won't be competing with the plaza.  At this rate we're going to have a tough time competing for tourism dollars with Crackerneck Falls.

I really have a hard time buying this argument of we need more mundane suburban bullcrap downtown.  I thought the intention was to establish a world class dining and entertainment district.

You talk about building infastrucutre, and how downtown needs this stuff.  You really think downtown dwellers are going to support a place like this, much less be able to entice Joe Shmoe in Olathe or Lee's Summit to load up the minivan to head downtown when he's got the same thing a block from his house.  Hell, if Applebee's couldn't survive downtown, why is this place going to?  People living downtown want places of interest.  Most of them are affluent, discriminating clientelle.  Given a choice, they'll spend their money at a place like Nara of the Cashew 9 out of 10 times over a place like Fred P Ottes.

When we visited 4rth Street Live in Louisville this summer we went to the Maker's Mark Lounge and Lucky Strike.  Why, because we all wanted a fun and unique experience.

It's like expecting visitors to Baltimore to eat at Joe's Crab Shack.  It won't happen.

 

You just mentioned Lucky Strike; we're getting one here actually.  And what about Sprint center events (hopefully Penguins games)?  There have been some places announced that will draw.  I suspect that they are saving many of the biggest drawing tenant announcements for closer to the opening date too (Hard Rock and DKNY are rumored to be locks).  You're certainly right that there needs to be some unique destinations but some more mundane places need to exist for daytime office traffic (largely suburban dwellers that are already in the area for work, not needing to be drawn in) and resident daily needs.  It has to draw from the area AND serve its immediate surroundings as well.  Concerts/live music/Sprint center will bring people in and expose them to the district.  Places like Hard Rock will draw heavily from the region and surrounding rural areas.  Places like Lucky Strike will bring people from all over the metro.  Some of the other restaurants like Gordon Biersch and the Miami Lounge place will provide destinations that people will visit on subsequent visits.  The shitty chain restaurants and cheaper, lunch-line places will provide the depth of affordable options that is required for DT workers and residents to visit day-in and day-out.  Unique and non unique retail will do the same.  I think it will do well, and bring people to the area that will eventually branch out and visit the other, more unique urban bars and restaurants that have popped up the last few years in the vicinity (like JP, Nara, Bulldog, Willie's, the coming SkyBar etc.)  I'd expect to hear the best, biggest drawing tenants announced closer to opening anyway, once a buzz exists and people are actually listening. 

PS, I have been wondering for a while what your avatar is.  I've been betting on it being the side of a beached oil tanker. 

[kcmetro]

PS, I have been wondering for a while what your avatar is.  I've been betting on it being the side of a beached oil tanker. 

I always thought it was the side of the Superdome in New Orleans.

[MidtownCat]

There was some great early momentum with the AMC project, Bristol and Lucky Strike.  For the sake of this project's longterm success hopefully Cordish finishes just as strong.

The image is the Cerner identity structure, btw.

[Gretz]

Damn!  I could've sworn I'd seen that pic on some documentary about the Aral Sea.

[im2kull]

The image is the Cerner identity structure, btw.

not to get off topic..but i've known that since the day I saw it..damn I feel smart now..

[ComandanteCero]

Personally, i don't have much of a problem with most of the stuff announced (except for Famous Dave's, which regardless of how you spin it is just wrong.  I realize that there are realistic and perfectly valid arguments for why they had to go with Famous Dave's and not a local, but as a matter of principal it's whack).  The Gimme Sum thing (disregarding the title), i just have a minor quibble, which is that being new to the metro I was hoping that it would atleast be unique to P+L (but instead, they are planning to open two other locations, one in Olathe and the Legends).  It's a minor quibble, especially considering the other tenants so far announced.

Almost all of the rest of the stuff seems perfectly fine for what the district is supposed to be:

A tourist and average Joe friendly area downtown.

That's it, that's all i expect from the P+L district.  We all know downtown badly needs it, and it's an essential component that just hasn't been there for a long time.  If we want to give the metro area an excuse to come downtown, we have to give options that appeal to the broadest segment of the population.  I don't think P+L will define downtown (alteast i sure as hell hope not), but it will be something for the masses, that will hopefully prove to even the most conservative minded, change averse, homogeneity wanting suburbanite that there is something for them downtown.

Luckily downtown is a large enough and diverse enough place that there is plenty of room for the independent, eclectic, shabby and edgy.  But every major city's downtown needs to have its tourist/family friendly area where hipsters/locals dare not tread, it's just part of the deal of being a true downtown.

[BurningMustard]

I had dinner with someone last night that said there was going to be a Gordon Biersch (As well as a Kona Grill) out south at 135th and old Metcalf, does anyone know if that is true.  Sorry if this is the wrong thread.

[KCPowercat]

My guess is the big hitting tenant announcements will be around July. 

People are way too negative...hell most downtown don't use what we already have....they complain we don't have the name brands.....then they are announced and they aren't happy with those.  Can't please some people at all.

Don't like Famous DAves?  Go to our already existing bbq mainstays...don't like Mosaic Lounge?  Go to Velvet Dog/Empire Room....don't like Chipolte...go to the longstanding NY Burrito.  Don't like Quaff as a sports bar....there will be a few chains you can enjoy in the P&L....

I'm really starting to question what some people want.

[Highlander]

My guess is the big hitting tenant announcements will be around July. 

  July?  I will be back home in July and was kind of hoping much of the district would be open by then.

[cdschofield]

I thought the P&L district was for tourists and downtown residents. Hence, the grocery store, fitness center, J A Banks, etc. Arguing that J A Banks won't survive downtown because nobody from the burbs will go downtown to shop at someplace they already have in their neighborhood is assuming the grocery store doesn't have a chance as well. So far I think Cordish has done a good job of balancing the tourist stuff with the resident stuff.

[KCMax]

Famous enough for barbecue’s big league?

It was one thing to saunter into the vast emptiness of Wyandotte County three years back and harvest the throngs that were flocking to Nebraska Furniture Mart and Cabela’s, quite another to go to battle in the barbecue capital of the world.

But that’s exactly what Willy Theisen, local owner of Famous Dave’s Legendary Pit Bar-B-Que, is about to do. Theisen says he’s ready to rumble in Kansas City’s heavyweight barbecue division in the coming-soon downtown Kansas City entertainment district.

“They thought we were nuts coming into Kansas City with a barbecue joint,â€

[downtown dweller]

New to this forum but i live downtown and some of the things i hear, and if someone can confirm, that there is a good possibility of a House of Blues coming to the P & L district which would be outstanding..also, Little Jake's / Danny Edwards BBQ is being run out by Copaken to build an office tower on that corner of 12th and Grand....I hope they plan on alot of security/ monitoring of patrons in the KC Live district especially with dancing nightclubs because the Ultra Club / Chemical Club at 11th and Grand was always having fights outside after closing that would spill into the streets and occasional gunfire and since that has now closed, the people who frequented that will probably migrate to the P & L district...also have heard a golf store is coming somewhere downtown which will be nice for the golfers that live and work downtown...lastly, I hope they are planning on building other buildings to the south of the KC Live District because when you drive on Grand towards the arena and look at the district from about Willie's all you see is ugly gray walls, I hope that isn't how they planning on leaving it.

[kcmetro]

lastly, I hope they are planning on building other buildings to the south of the KC Live District because when you drive on Grand towards the arena and look at the district from about Willie's all you see is ugly gray walls, I hope that isn't how they planning on leaving it.

There will eventually be condo towers there, but in the meantime they are supposed to put murals on those walls.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit ... 449686.htm

[Brodees]

[quote="KCMax"]
As for Theisen’s use of boxing metaphors, “I like that,â€

[Gretz]

You tell 'em, Ollie.

The McRib is nothing compared to MOOSECOCK....

                                        -- Sven

[tat2kc]

Too bad Ollie didn't put his money where his mouth is and open in the district. You can't tell me that Gates BBQ is so strapped for cash that they couldn't afford to be there.

[ComandanteCero]

I don't think it's as much a question of cash as it is of saturation.  He already has a location 2 miles or so down the road, i can't think of any successful franchises locating that close to each other outside of densely populated urban areas (other than maybe fast food joints), not to mention the aforementioned competition between BBQ places.  It would be crazy to open a location near other big hitting BBQ places like Jack Stack and Bryants, and also take business away from your own store down the road. 

Like others said, the most likely candidate would have been one of the established local BBQ places that don't already have locations near downtown (i.e Ok Joe's), but in a town like KC where there is a lot of competition between BBQ places, and the margins for error (and profit, form what i understand) are small I think it's a pretty big deal to open a new location.

I think the fact that Dave's has done so well in the Legends is, as someone else already mentioned, because of all the day-trip people who only know that the BBQ is supposed to be good in KC and head to nearest thing that looks like a BBQ place.  I think we'll see the exact same effect with the P+L district, tourists will flock to Dave's based on the assumption that it's a KC place, with little to no reason to seek out the true greats unless they have more than a passing interest in BBQ (which most people sadly don't have).

Anyway, not to make a big deal of it.  It's not the end of KC BBQ, but certainly lame in my book.

[KCPowercat]

New to this forum but i live downtown and some of the things i hear, and if someone can confirm, that there is a good possibility of a House of Blues coming to the P & L district which would be outstanding..also, Little Jake's / Danny Edwards BBQ is being run out by Copaken to build an office tower on that corner of 12th and Grand....I hope they plan on alot of security/ monitoring of patrons in the KC Live district especially with dancing nightclubs because the Ultra Club / Chemical Club at 11th and Grand was always having fights outside after closing that would spill into the streets and occasional gunfire and since that has now closed, the people who frequented that will probably migrate to the P & L district...also have heard a golf store is coming somewhere downtown which will be nice for the golfers that live and work downtown...lastly, I hope they are planning on building other buildings to the south of the KC Live District because when you drive on Grand towards the arena and look at the district from about Willie's all you see is ugly gray walls, I hope that isn't how they planning on leaving it.

Welcome to the site.  Much of what you mention has been covered in various threads.  This is the first I've heard of a golf store....that would be a welcome addition.

[trailerkid]

I don't think it's as much a question of cash as it is of saturation.  He already has a location 2 miles or so down the road, i can't think of any successful franchises locating that close to each other outside of densely populated urban areas (other than maybe fast food joints), not to mention the aforementioned competition between BBQ places.  It would be crazy to open a location near other big hitting BBQ places like Jack Stack and Bryants, and also take business away from your own store down the road. 

Like others said, the most likely candidate would have been one of the established local BBQ places that don't already have locations near downtown (i.e Ok Joe's), but in a town like KC where there is a lot of competition between BBQ places, and the margins for error (and profit, form what i understand) are small I think it's a pretty big deal to open a new location.

I think the fact that Dave's has done so well in the Legends is, as someone else already mentioned, because of all the day-trip people who only know that the BBQ is supposed to be good in KC and head to nearest thing that looks like a BBQ place.  I think we'll see the exact same effect with the P+L district, tourists will flock to Dave's based on the assumption that it's a KC place, with little to no reason to seek out the true greats unless they have more than a passing interest in BBQ (which most people sadly don't have).

Anyway, not to make a big deal of it.  It's not the end of KC BBQ, but certainly lame in my book.

Anyone who mistakes Famous Dave's for a local joint needs his/her head examined. Local and authentic spots don't locate between a Hard Rock Cafe and a Chipotle and most anyone would realize this. How is this any different than bringing a Cici's Pizza to State Street in Chi? IMO I don't even consider Famous Dave's and Bryant's, Gates, OK Joe's, LC's as competitors in any form. Famous Dave's is more a competitor with Applebee's, TGI Friday's and other casual chain restaurants. It's a completely different product than KC BBQ.

[kanasalumn]

The original Bryants is not too far from P&L  I am not too upset about Famous Dave, somewhat good good, sauce is okay for me.  The best bbq in town is Oklahoma Joes in my opinon.