Three Light

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beautyfromashes
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Re: Three Light

Postby beautyfromashes » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:26 pm

^ ST, I think you can probably figure out which Cordish property I’m referring to. There are only two. You ‘guessed’ wrong.

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Re: Three Light

Postby StrangerThings » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:47 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:^ ST, I think you can probably figure out which Cordish property I’m referring to. There are only two. You ‘guessed’ wrong.



One Light only Has exposed duct work in the bedrooms. No exposed concrete floors and there’s always going to be a market for an affordable loft style studio. Two Light is even nicer with no exposed duct work and better finishes.

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Re: Three Light

Postby FangKC » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:49 pm

StrangerThings wrote:I'm not sure which Cordish property you're referencing with the "cheap loft, concrete floors, exposed duct work" line either????

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I think he means One Light, and probably meant the exposed concrete ceilings and walls instead of floors. In some apartments in One Light, there are exposed pipes and ducts. Again you are wrong StrangerThings. You can see in the photos I'm providing that there are exposed ducts and pipes in the living area and kitchens of One Light.

I hope Cordish limits that look to just One Light, since only has a limited appeal for most people. I guess it's not a big deal since it's a rental apartment building. Most people who buy in luxury buildings want a more finished look. The ceilings in One Light make me think the apartments were built in a former parking garage.

I wouldn't live in One Light simply because of the exposed pipes and ducts, and the concrete ceilings. I don't like that unfinished look. And don't overestimate the market for it. If one ever sells the apartments, more people will be put off with those features than attracted. For rentals, it's not as big a deal because many of the tenants will not be long-term and will move on at some point.

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beautyfromashes
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Re: Three Light

Postby beautyfromashes » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:48 pm

^ You’re right, the floors aren’t concrete. It’s the ceilings. Are the floors actual wood or engineered wood that they snap together? I think Cordish thought they could throw a hot dog to a hungry dog and it would get eaten up. They were right in the short term, but several years from now, they will have to renovate to get/keep residents, especially with better product coming to the market. The same with exteriors.

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Re: Three Light

Postby StrangerThings » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:41 pm

I live in One Light and I’m not a huge fan of the concrete ceilings. I don’t mind the exposed duct work as it avoids the need for awkward soffits but personal taste will vary. The floors, like most all luxury apartments at this price point are engineered hardwood.

You don’t build high rise apartment interiors to last 25 years. Trends change and a good developer will always stay ahead of them. Considering it was 99% leases before the first move in, the made a bet and won. In 5-10 years they’ll likely start updating interiors. The exteriors however won’t change.

The buildings will continue to get better as they learn how much they can charge and who wants what. It’s a constantly changing process. Let’s face it, a new high rise luxury apartment building in downtown KC is virtually untapped territory.

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Re: Three Light

Postby smh » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:12 am

I happened to be in a One Light unit yesterday for a few minutes, I have to say it was much nicer than I recalled. I agree I'd like to have duct work hidden and finished ceilings though, a full move away from "loft" vibe.

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Re: Three Light

Postby StrangerThings » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:06 pm

One Light was a bit of a risk. Sure, a new high rise residential unit hasn’t been built downtown for 40 years but “would they come” and “how much will they pay” was hard to nail down. The budget corresponded to those unknowns. Two Light will be much improved now that there’s some proof of concept. I’m personally looking forward to moving down the street into TL.

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Re: Three Light

Postby beautyfromashes » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:47 pm

StrangerThings wrote:One Light was a bit of a risk. Sure, a new high rise residential unit hasn’t been built downtown for 40 years but “would they come” and “how much will they pay” was hard to nail down. The budget corresponded to those unknowns. Two Light will be much improved now that there’s some proof of concept. I’m personally looking forward to moving down the street into TL.

Yes, this is understood that Cordish took a huge risk. They deserve a good amount of credit along with the city council taking a chance to rebuild DT. The problem I’m having is that I feel they are building for the current market. 1L was built to rent out immediately, and it did. But, as you agreed, it is already somewhat dated due to the budget constraints at the time. Their product is dating very quickly as 1L has only been open a few years. Now that we can see more where the market is going, they should plan for a longer term product that wouldn’t need updating so quickly. This includes the exterior product. I’m decently happy with what they are building, just not blown away. Still rooting for their success.

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Re: Three Light

Postby StrangerThings » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:53 pm

^ I don't disagree with you. I think One Light will continue to service those who don't want to spend the money on a place at Two Light, or those who really want to be that close to the store, gym etc. One block doesn't sound like much, but when you become so used to that convenience, going outside and walking one block to the gym and store suddenly become a PITA!

Two Light is looking great on the interior, every aspect has been stepped up and depending on how quickly it leases, I would expect Three Light to be slightly nicer, or perhaps a bit riskier on the interior designs. I also believe the plan is to slowly start upgrading One Light, likely 5 years or so down the road as people move out and there's a short window to update on a per unit basis.

The folks on here aren't the only ones not 100% happy with the exterior designs. The teams I work with all go in with these grand ideas and designs, than sadly are forced to scale back when we get the bids back. The exterior of Two Light could look better, but when you're talking 15 million dollars savings by eliminating some of the original exterior elements, it's a choice that has to be made.

Personally, I'm excited about how things are going and am really looking forward to a new office tower and the capping of I-670. I hope I'm still downtown to see all that come together.

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Re: Three Light

Postby earthling » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:14 pm

" The exterior of Two Light could look better, but when you're talking 15 million dollars savings by eliminating some of the original exterior elements, it's a choice that has to be made. "

Apologies for pressing on this but you can make it look different at similar cost level. And can source materials from a Cordish project in another city to get economies of scale. Making it look different but just meh would be better than two nearly same meh looking buildings. Use different dark tinted windows from another city's project and use black trim instead of those 60's style aluminum looking strips. It would look a bit better or at least different and not a row of meh, yet not necessarily more expensive parts.

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Re: Three Light

Postby beautyfromashes » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:25 pm

Kind of the point I'm trying to make though, ST. Is it better to spend the $15M up front and not have to upgrade in 5 years with the hassle of doing it with tenants in the building? And all the more so for the exterior. Why not spend some extra money on an exterior look that will be a classic and timeless instead of something cheaper that will age poorly. If you'll create something iconic meant to last 50 years+, by the time that 50 years is over it will be back in style and never need to have a full style change. This as opposed to changes every 10 years. See the P&L building as an example.

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Re: Three Light

Postby StrangerThings » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:08 pm

I wasn't really referencing the building materials, more so some nice structural designs that were originally part of the exterior plan. One side was to cascade out in a fairly dramatic fashion for example. I do understand the desire to use different building materials, like slightly different colored glass and I'm not sure why that was shot down.

I think it's a bit unfair to compare the era in which the P&L building was built to any era afterwords. That was such an iconic era of high rise design and construction. Everyone want's floor to ceiling windows these days, which limits your exterior materials choices to glass. Most of the really cool iconic buildings being built these days accomplish the iconic part with their structural shapes. Cities can accommodate only so many icons, the rest need to be effective or you end up with an amazing looking skyline but no one who can afford to be tenants. If you look at some of the floor plates and wall to floor ratios of iconic buildings, you see that they can only be built in super high end downtown markets where the market value is already ridiculous.

Honestly, these buildings were a challenge the day they designed the master plan for the district and left blocky surface parkings lots open for future towers. I really have my fingers crossed we will get to do something unique if the new office tower plan ever happens. I think that's the place you can get a bit experimental with the design because your interior build out costs are much lower than residential. So perhaps you can justify spending the extra on the exterior.

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Re: Three Light

Postby ldai_phs » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:11 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:Kind of the point I'm trying to make though, ST. Is it better to spend the $15M up front and not have to upgrade in 5 years with the hassle of doing it with tenants in the building? And all the more so for the exterior. Why not spend some extra money on an exterior look that will be a classic and timeless instead of something cheaper that will age poorly. If you'll create something iconic meant to last 50 years+, by the time that 50 years is over it will be back in style and never need to have a full style change. This as opposed to changes every 10 years. See the P&L building as an example.

I think he's saying they don't really know if the money/demand is there to make those "iconic" designs. And/or Cordish believes in it, but its hard to sell a bank on a $15 million upgraded exterior for a building with demand they aren't sure will be there.
Thus they build something that is good. Wait a few years for demand to be proven. Then they upgrade the buildings.

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Re: Three Light

Postby ldai_phs » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:12 pm

StrangerThings wrote:^ I don't disagree with you. I think One Light will continue to service those who don't want to spend the money on a place at Two Light, or those who really want to be that close to the store, gym etc. One block doesn't sound like much, but when you become so used to that convenience, going outside and walking one block to the gym and store suddenly become a PITA!

Two Light is looking great on the interior, every aspect has been stepped up and depending on how quickly it leases, I would expect Three Light to be slightly nicer, or perhaps a bit riskier on the interior designs. I also believe the plan is to slowly start upgrading One Light, likely 5 years or so down the road as people move out and there's a short window to update on a per unit basis.

The folks on here aren't the only ones not 100% happy with the exterior designs. The teams I work with all go in with these grand ideas and designs, than sadly are forced to scale back when we get the bids back. The exterior of Two Light could look better, but when you're talking 15 million dollars savings by eliminating some of the original exterior elements, it's a choice that has to be made.

Personally, I'm excited about how things are going and am really looking forward to a new office tower and the capping of I-670. I hope I'm still downtown to see all that come together.


Would the office tower be mixed use? Is there a timeline?

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Re: Three Light

Postby StrangerThings » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:28 pm

ldai_phs wrote:
Would the office tower be mixed use? Is there a timeline?


Ground floor would possibly have some retail, but it wasn't originally designed to have much. The lobby and elevator shaft are already there for the most part. No serious timeline as the conversations have only recently started up with H&R. I do know they'd like to have the I-670 cap done within 5 years.

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Re: Three Light

Postby smh » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:06 am

StrangerThings wrote:
ldai_phs wrote:
Would the office tower be mixed use? Is there a timeline?


Ground floor would possibly have some retail, but it wasn't originally designed to have much. The lobby and elevator shaft are already there for the most part. No serious timeline as the conversations have only recently started up with H&R. I do know they'd like to have the I-670 cap done within 5 years.


Just to clarify, this site already has retail around it, so while the proposed tower might not be mixed-use, the project overall would effectively be so because of the pre-existing ground floor retail in the area. I think. Right?

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Re: Three Light

Postby WoodDraw » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:24 pm

Wait, why is H&R even involved? Did they have another option on this? Surely they don't need more room? What an I missing?

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Re: Three Light

Postby StrangerThings » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:32 pm

WoodDraw wrote:Wait, why is H&R even involved? Did they have another option on this? Surely they don't need more room? What an I missing?


Their "air rights" were extended to 2020. Cordish and H&R are in early stages of discussion on how to proceed. The easy answer is yes, they need some more room but not an entire building.

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Re: Three Light

Postby WoodDraw » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:41 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
WoodDraw wrote:Wait, why is H&R even involved? Did they have another option on this? Surely they don't need more room? What an I missing?


Their "air rights" were extended to 2020. Cordish and H&R are in early stages of discussion on how to proceed. The easy answer is yes, they need some more room but not an entire building.


Thank you :)

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Re: Three Light

Postby im2kull » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:09 pm

WoodDraw wrote:Wait, why is H&R even involved? Did they have another option on this? Surely they don't need more room? What an I missing?


This is the location of what was originally considered H&R Block Phase II..correct? H&R intended to build another high rise for their own use in this spot, which still seems to be ..at least somewhat.. the case.


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