Keitz and Barnes

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby kcdcchef » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:59 pm

Kard wrote:Chef still hasn't responded to the Pot Calling The Kettle Black argument.  It's ok for Chef to leave town to further his career and still say Downtown is great, but not for KK to invest in a venture in the burbs while promoting DT.

Wonder why he hasn't responded.  I'm sure it's a completly different scenario.


i have responded. i will be happy to respond again. kard, i am not sitting here promoting downtown while calling it dead, referring to it is "down there" and saying there is absolutely "nothing to do there" like kietz does. i am not sitting here being on air, listened to by tens of thousands, saying, it is a terrible place to open a business. kevin kietzman, is. kevin kietzman sits behind his mike, and says on one hand, we need a downtown stadium, and on the other, saying that he would not invest his money into a venture in the same downtown.

i, when i come to town, spend my money downtown, in restaurants and hotels, A LOT FOR THAT MATTER. and, talk up downtown, speak about it well, and when i had the chance to put my money where my mouth was, putting a business in downtown, i put my own money behind the plan. has kk done any of that? he made it known on the air his investment along with 7 others on a dt condo was $10k. 10k. save that shit.

so, yes, i left to further my career, in a way my beloved home city could not do. i made that choice, stand by it, and would do it again in a second if given the opprutunity. i have yet to fall in love with any city, new york, washington, dc, colonial williamsburg, pittsbugh, in the way i did with kcmo. and never will, hence, coming back so much. but, leaving, to further my career, and still spending lavishly on dt kcmo, versus, living, working, and playing in joco, never going dt, and telling everyone else that the same dt you say is dead and hopeless, that they should invest in dt, are not the same.

and you know it.

have a nice day.
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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby KC-wildcat » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:32 pm

kcdcchef wrote:...while calling it dead, referring to it is "down there" and saying there is absolutely "nothing to do there" . . . it is a terrible place to open a business . . . saying that he would not invest his money into a venture in the same downtown . . . living, working, and playing in joco, never going dt, and telling everyone else that the same dt you say is dead and hopeless, that they should invest in dt, are not the same.


Chef, I think you're exagerating to prove a point.  I listen to 810 almost every day during the commute.  When Keitz was discussing the arena and the stadium, I listened daily.  The man was optimistic about the prospect of downtown development.

I've said it before, and no matter how much money you "lavishly" throw around down at the cigar box, totally nude, or whatever establishment which has stayed afloat in the urban core, you can not persuade me... downtown is "dead." 

Downtown is growing.  It is developing fast.  In 2 years it is going to be one of the major attractions in the area.  At that point, if Keitz still would not be willing to invest in DT, than your criticism will be deserved.  Currently, it is hypocritical.

You are exactly the same as Keitz.  You took employment where the industry was hot.  You didn't try and start your career in the middle of a stagnant downtown.  Keitz did the same thing. 

Lastly, there are talks that once the arena is built, an 810 Zone will be a tenant in the P&L district.  It is safe to say that this is more than a rumor.  If this is true, your entire argument will fall like a house of cards.  You really should reevaluate your argument. 

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby KCMax » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:17 pm

Wasn't the 810Zone as a P&L tenant confirmed by the Star at one point? Or at least confirmed that they were negotiating?
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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby skim82 » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:39 am

KC-wildcat wrote:You are exactly the same as Keitz.  You took employment where the industry was hot.  You didn't try and start your career in the middle of a stagnant downtown.  Keitz did the same thing. 
 


Great point, everyone just needs to lay off Keitz, i firmly believe that his heart is in the right place.

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby 49r » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:46 pm

Maybe some people are just jealous of Keitzman and his radio show?  They only wish they could be as influential as him?  And because they aren't they take out their frustrations on an internet messageboard.

That's my theory anyways...

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby schugg » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:16 pm

skim82 wrote:Great point, everyone just needs to lay off Keitz, i firmly believe that his heart is in the right place.
his show however can be downtown, why isn't it?

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby KCPowercat » Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:17 pm

please no 810 zone downtown...at least in the form I saw it in Leawood.  Now if they do it up big and right, then I'm cool with having something unique...just seems hokey to have a sports bar named after a AM radio station.
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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby lock+load » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:40 pm

KCPowercat wrote:just seems hokey to have a sports bar named after a AM radio station.


Would it be better named after an FM radio station?

Max FM Zone? :)

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby KCPowercat » Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:26 pm

Let's just name it "Kevin's sports palace"
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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby skim82 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:48 pm

schugg wrote:his show however can be downtown, why isn't it?


Because, he doesn't actually own all of Union Broadcasting.. it was a decision by bmac, and everyone involved at Union.

They have their offices in OP, because at the time they thought it would be the best option.. (return on investment)

I'm sure if they had to do it over, they would consider Dt.. in fact, if they do open in the P&L district, i could see them broadcasting alot of shows live from there.

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby GRID » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:07 am

All I can say is that it was pretty cool walking out of the stadium in Phoenix last night and seeing a packed radio station / night club blasting music into the streets of an otherwise rather bland downtown.

810 "COULD HAVE" put their money where their really big mouth is and did the same thing and it would have blown away the similar situation in Phoenix.

KK just rubs me the wrong way, they sit around and bitch and moan about Jackson County while nearly 100% catering to Johnson County listeners.  The same Johnson County that has done nothing but be a thorn in KCMO's side for several decades. He has put down KCMO many times, I notice it, maybe some of you don't but he does.  He wants a vibrant downtown, but has no idea how to be a part of that except for somehow getting Jackson County to build a downtown ballpark.  Other than the Downtown park and arena, KK is CLUELESS about downtown, and I would bet he has not been north of the plaza in years unless they entertained some clients in their western auto condo before they put it back on the market...

Remember when the Downtown Council had that press conference in the Liberty Memorial auditorium?  KK was like WTF?  ,at the Liberty Memorial?, after the deal, he was amazed at how nice it was, he hadn't been in years.  He has gotten a little better ever since he saw the cordish model downtown, but every since they moved clear to southern joco, I have since written them off.  I love the giveaways, first ten to show up at the studio get free Chiefs tickets.  Most the the metro doesn't have a chance.  Again, I just find it ironic.

We are not getting a downtown stadium and that sucks.

Oh well.

What we are getting is a practically brand new baseball stadium that will at least not resemble 16 other parks in the league, but it will be our own and unique stadium and KK might, just might want to actually THANK jackson county residents as they only wanted to keep the team and not see them leave KC or even jump the state line into KS like so many other Jackson County institutions have done over the years.  Have any of you ever heard KK rant and rave about Village West???  He freaking loves the place and would take one or both stadiums out there in a heartbeat.  Very typical in his neck of the woods.

KK is pro KS, he would like a better downtown for him to claim, but by far and large, KK is pro KANSAS and that's fine.  He could have been pro KC and so could the rest of 810 by putting the new studio in the city they love so much.

Some day, the land around the stadiums might develop.  I can see the land across I-70 getting developed into highrise condos or some other mixed use development over the next 15 years or so.  I don't see any big retail (thank god), like you see at the speedway, but the area is ripe for some nice high density developments.  The land just needs to be marketed and shown to the right people.

Too bad Jackson turned down the rolling roof, that would have done just that and I guarantee you kc would have a major development proposed near the stadiums if we were getting the superbowl, all star game, final four etc in the next ten years.  Mostly just because it would have marketed the TSC to developers across the nation in a city that is largely ignored on the national development scene.  That's is all we can do now is try to at least build up the area around the stadiums.  It's never going to be the dense "ballpark village" type connection, the TSC is an island.  But there is no reason we can't "un-countrify/ghetto" the area around the stadiums and at least give people something more to look at from the stadium and from their TVs other than the either industrial or sparse, allmost rural built environment that surrounds the TSC.

KK is a nice guy and for the most part, I think he's good for KC radio, because the rest of the radio personalities, especially on the AM side, are far worse and detached from KCMO than KK is.

I'm way off topic, I'm good with KK and 810 in general, but they just rub me the wrong way a bit, but again, that is my opinion...
Last edited by GRID on Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby Burton » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:58 am

GRID wrote:What we are getting is a practically brand new baseball stadium that will at least not resemble 16 other parks in the league

This "all the new parks look the same" sentiment still baffles me, and whenever I've asked for specific examples in the past I've never gotten any straight answers from anyone.

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby GRID » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:18 am

Burton wrote:This "all the new parks look the same" sentiment still baffles me, and whenever I've asked for specific examples in the past I've never gotten any straight answers from anyone.



Sure, they are different, but at the same time, they are the same.  Many are brick retro, many are retro with a touch of comtemporary architecture, etc.

But over all, they are very similar.  From the concourses, to the jagged and funky angles of the seating sections, sight lines, to the LED banner score boards to the sports bars and massive gift shops.

Kauffman will be different for many reasons.  Obviously the location is right there with Milwaukee, Arlington and Anaheim, but the stadium just has a different feel to it.  Now I don't know if it will when they put suits up top, build out and connect the old GA seating areas, widen the concourses and put in dozens of new places to spend money, but I think it will.

The fountains, the score boards, the seating bowl, even the cork screw ramps.  I don't know, it's just different.

Till the games over and you walk through a massive parking lot seeing nothing but cars ;).

But as I have said a zillion times before, most people go to their cars or transit and the stadium area is as dead as the TSC within an hour except maybe a bar or two.

It would be freaking awesome to have a stadium downtown, but we don't have to have one and we are not getting one, so lets make the best of it.

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby KCMax » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:20 am

I don't get the "they all look the same" argument either. Even if you think all the new parks look the same, I don't see how you can then say that Kauffman looks drastically different from all other parks.
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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby skim82 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:58 am

GRID wrote:810 "COULD HAVE" put their money where their really big mouth is and did the same thing and it would have blown away the similar situation in Phoenix.


Maybe the fact is that if 810 was in the Northland or Lee's Summit, you wouldn't care, but just because it's in KANSAS, you feel that somehow they couldn't possibly be pro-KCMO.

Listen, I don't blame you for seeing it that way, there are many reasons to believe as a Missourian, that KS and JoCo have done things in the past to deter DTKCMO from really thriving....

However, it seems like the same old record... People on this forum love to pick a fight with JoCo because I think they need someone to blame.

There are many people on this forum that simply get put off by JoCo... that's fine...    I grew up here, and if offends me when I hear that kind of stuff.  Believe it or not, there are many on the KS side that wants DTKCMO to thrive... and there are just as many people that live in Tiffany Greens and Lakewood that don't give a rats ass about DT as there are at Lionsgate. 

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby kcdcchef » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:05 am

GRID wrote:
Sure, they are different, but at the same time, they are the same.  Many are brick retro, many are retro with a touch of comtemporary architecture, etc.

But over all, they are very similar.  From the concourses, to the jagged and funky angles of the seating sections, sight lines, to the LED banner score boards to the sports bars and massive gift shops.

Kauffman will be different for many reasons.  Obviously the location is right there with Milwaukee, Arlington and Anaheim, but the stadium just has a different feel to it.  Now I don't know if it will when they put suits up top, build out and connect the old GA seating areas, widen the concourses and put in dozens of new places to spend money, but I think it will.

The fountains, the score boards, the seating bowl, even the cork screw ramps.  I don't know, it's just different.

Till the games over and you walk through a massive parking lot seeing nothing but cars ;).

But as I have said a zillion times before, most people go to their cars or transit and the stadium area is as dead as the TSC within an hour except maybe a bar or two.

It would be freaking awesome to have a stadium downtown, but we don't have to have one and we are not getting one, so lets make the best of it.


i get grids argument, because, sure, some stand out, but almost all are becoming brick retro, black steel, weird seating configurements, it is becoming WAY too similar amongst new ballparks, i have now had the benefit of seeing 18 of them in the past 10 years, and a lot of the new ones i go to for the first time, i am like, oh wow, another jacobs field, big deal.

so, yeah, we will have something TOTALLY different.
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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby lock+load » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:31 am

kcdcchef wrote:so, yeah, we will have something TOTALLY different.


By that argument, we should have kept Kemper, poured $150 million into it and had something TOTALLY different.

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby MidWestSider » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:59 am

It’s Business!

I believe the business plan for the 810zone is bit more extensive than one joco location.  I would almost be willing to guarantee there is some kind of tentative plan or at least a goal to have a DT restaurant (possibly pending a Sprint Center tenant or DT ballpark).  But seriously-- why wouldn’t you develop your product in an area that probably has the greatest probability for success in the metro? I would.

If I had plans to open a chain type restaurant my first location would not be dtkc and I love DT, I live downtown.  Your margin for error with a downtown location is slim.  I say perfect your product in the burbs then come downtown later where then you can hit the ground running.

GRID wrote:All I can say is that it was pretty cool walking out of the stadium in Phoenix last night and seeing a packed radio station / night club blasting music into the streets of an otherwise rather bland downtown.

810 "COULD HAVE" put their money where their really big mouth is and did the same thing and it would have blown away the similar situation in Phoenix.


Are you saying 810's first location should have been Raytown?

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby lock+load » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:12 am

I continue to find it quite ironic that some, who choose not to make their home downtown, vilify others who make decisions based on financial, economic, family, etc. reasons.  If you can't be a balls to the wall DT supporter, why would you expect someone else to?

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Re: Keitz and Barnes

Postby kcdcchef » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:47 am

lock&load wrote:By that argument, we should have kept Kemper, poured $150 million into it and had something TOTALLY different.


i played hockey in kemper, it is near and dear to my heart, and if someone stepped forward with that plan to pour 150m into kemper, honestly, i would have been conflicted, but, in the end, i would not have supported that.

name anyone, besides me, that feels anything for kemper. there were those who did have feelings about kauffman, hence, the vote passing.

get over it lockandload.
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