One really good reason voters should've rejected the stadium tax

[trailerkid]

JaxCo is the leader....I have no problem paying for it.  All I've ever heard is chatter about somebody else taking the lead....it's never done.

No one is going to take the lead when JackCo continues to bend over and overextend itself. It's called tough love...let your bird fly free. You will benefit in the end.

[GRID]

First off there is no reason to vacate the TSC for KS for football.  Why create a brownfield and put the stadium in a greenfield, just so Kansans will chip in?

Hmmm...this is an interesting point. Remember the votes for light rail and the arena? Your perception and reality don't always align.

The northland approved the arena by over 60%.  Have the passed everything?  No, put they have passed a lot and just the fact the they are in MO, most of them are in KCMO they contribute far more than JoCo does to regional assets.

The northland voted for health care for the poor, the zoo expansion, the bartle expansion, the liberty memorial and many many other regional issues.  Far more of them pay the KCMO e tax, they pay MO taxes and Clay and Platte county ask them for money all the time for their issues.

We will have nice stadiums now.  Time to move on.  Don't like it?  Go hang out at the speedway.

[shinatoo]

The aviation department is a city of KCMo department.

http://www.kcmo.org/cco.nsf/web/news?opendocument

The city has been deeply involved in improving its own airport-related infrastructure. On the more visible level, the city is on the verge of completing its extensive rehab of existing facilities, specifically the terminal improvement program. "The fact of the matter," said Cauthen, "is that we are going to have a new looking airport."

http://www.ingramsonline.com/dplatte/ecdev3.php

I'm really starting to understand how people get caught up in this stupidity...

Aviation is funded as an enterprise division of the city.  Every dime that goes into it, is generated by its own special taxes on aviation fuel, airline tickets and lease income from the private enterprises on aviation property.  Every building at the airport is eventually owned by the city, even the Marriott.

The Water Department is funded the same way....water and sewer bills.

So, trailerkid, are you once again fail to admit that you are wrong?

I guess the stupidity that people are getting caught up in is yours.

[trailerkid]

We will have nice stadiums now.  Time to move on.  Don't like it?  Go hang out at the speedway.

At least there are restaurants there without drive-throughs...

Waste your money on what you want, I guess. I just don't want to read your negative comments about our "big city" quotient knowing you support the Truman redo.

[trailerkid]

So, trailerkid, are you once again fail to admit that you are wrong?

I guess the stupidity that people are getting caught up in is yours.

The airport was built by the city and is governed by the city. It is part of the city infrastructure no matter how revenue is directed. If the shit hits the fan...it is KCMO's responsibility. Why else would Cauthan be so involved in everything going on up there? For his own personal pleasure? It's not like Sprint or something. The city manager is the boss of the aviation director.

[shinatoo]

The airport was built by the city and is governed by the city. It is part of the city infrastructure no matter how revenue is directed. If the shit hits the fan...it is KCMO's responsibility. Why else would Cauthan be so involved in everything going on up there? For his own personal pleasure? It's not like Sprint or something.

He's concerned because KCI is a money maker for the city, it is a crucial part of the cities transportation infrastructure, and it's a high profile political fire starter.

But you said "MCI would've also been another good opportunity to shift a big tax burden to the KS side." And obviously MCI is not a tax burden.

I know where this is going with you so I'm just going to call "Black Knight" on you and quit waisting my time baning my head against the wall.

[trailerkid]

He's concerned because KCI is a money maker for the city, it is a crucial part of the cities transportation infrastructure, and it's a high profile political fire starter.

But you said "MCI would've also been another good opportunity to shift a big tax burden to the KS side." And obviously MCI is not a tax burden.

I know where this is going with you so I'm just going to call "Black Knight" on you and quit waisting my time baning my head against the wall.

Do I need to spell it out...

The city manager FIRED THE AVIATION DIRECTOR A FEW YEARS AGO. That doesn't sound like something operating independently from the city. Are you arguing with the fact that the aviation department is under the jurisdiction of the city? There is a KCMo city seal on the fucking airport's logo.

I never said the airport was in the red or bleeding the city, but it is another piece of the puzzle that KCMo is solely responsible for. Perhaps the city could start doing things stabilizing East Side neighborhoods, transit planning, arts inititiatives, more early childhood programs if it didn't have every single metro attraction and infrastructure on its plate. That's all I'm saying, but I can see you don't agree.

[aknowledgeableperson]

You're a sore winner.  Get over it.

And those that did not want to measure to pass are sore, whinney, crybaby, I'm gong home to mommy losers.  Me, I am a proud and happy winner. 

[aknowledgeableperson]

Ummm...not trying to be a dick, but don't continue to pass ballot initiatives that force the entire tax burden on one central county or central city. The KS side will never get the message as long as Jack Co continues to pick up after them. The stuff that KCMo pays for alone is bad enough, but this takes it to another level.

KCMO supports the zoo because they do not want to give up control of it.  Jackson County supports TSC because it does not want other tax entities to have a say in how it is operated.  Bistate I worked because all tax paying entities had a say in how the tax dollars were going to be spent.  Bistate II did not work for many reasons, one being that the big ticket items did not share the responsibility on how the funds were to be spent.
Share control and shared financial responsibility will come.

[trailerkid]

Me, I am a proud and happy winner. 

Have fun in your refurbished bathrooms.

[kard]

Share control and shared financial responsibility will come.

Bingo.  I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to give up.

[kcdcchef]

And those that did not want to measure to pass are sore, whinney, crybaby, I'm gong home to mommy losers.  Me, I am a proud and happy winner. 

welcome back akp. they sure were, weren't they?

[KCPowercat]

Have fun in your refurbished bathrooms.

YOu seem to be making this an "us vs. them" issue...why is that?  I get the feeling you have some sort of "KS wants something" vibe going on.

What's done is done....why brew over it?  We're getting refurbs on 2 great stadiums....do people make fun of Chicago for not building new?  LA?  Green Bay?  NY?  Boston?  Come on.

[lock+load]

I see no reason for this thread to stay open....the vote is done, this self-promoting is useless.

tk...your argument doesn't make sense.  It's over, this is a pointless conversation.

What's done is done....why brew over it?

so we'll bring this topic up again in 25 years or earlier when the predicted defaulting begins....

Maybe if someone had cared enough to stay on top of the issue, we wouldn't be in the position we are now.  It appears you are ready to dismiss the stadium issue for 25 years, or until the county has defaulted AGAIN (which you seem to expect).  Dismissing dialogue as "pointless" and "useless" merely based on the fact that the vote is over is ridiculous.  That is EXACTLY what the teams and the JackCo government want us to do, so they can screw it up again and screw us over again.  Let's try to learn from our mistakes instead of pushing them under the rug.

[KCPowercat]

ok so what do you propose?  File a suit to dismiss the will of the people?  Keep this thread open for 25 years to discuss?

As you can see I said the "predicted" default....not necessarily from me.

tk is asking why jaxco is paying for this....that issue is done....we are paying for it....it's funny how so many outside of jaxco are worried about this. 

We already let them try with Union Station.....let's not have the teams/stadiums screwed up.  Now we can debate whether this was the best use of our taxes (which seems to be your point) but that's not the theme of this thread.

[kucer]

tk is asking why jaxco is paying for this....that issue is done....we are paying for it....it's funny how so many outside of jaxco are worried about this.

i believe he started this thread and his one good reason for rejecting this ballot was the burden wasn't shared.  that's the theme of this thread. i for one totally agree. it's bs.  the joco/ks guys i work with aren't worried about it. they are laughing their collective asses off at me and other jaco residents that have to pay for a stadium that they all go to. we are seen as fools.

let's not have the teams/stadiums screwed up

That's already happened with the first default. Why isn't it going to happen again?  Just because it's not a bi-state deal?

[Highlander]

I guess there is not 5-6 HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE in the MO side suburbs that have good schools and housing appreciation while at the same time contributing to regional needs more?  I must be in a dream world then.

OK, I'm stepping out of this thread now before I go off and regret it.   :x

My point is rhetorical......that nobody moves to JoCo to avoid paying for regional attractions like TSC and Sprint Arena....there are plenty of other reasons people do move there, regardless of the same options existing elsewhere in the metro, but i doubt if getting a free ride ever enters into one's mind when purchasing a home in JoCo. 

[shinatoo]

Do I need to spell it out...

The city manager FIRED THE AVIATION DIRECTOR A FEW YEARS AGO. That doesn't sound like something operating independently from the city. Are you arguing with the fact that the aviation department is under the jurisdiction of the city? There is a KCMo city seal on the fucking airport's logo.

I never said the airport was in the red or bleeding the city, but it is another piece of the puzzle that KCMo is solely responsible for. Perhaps the city could start doing things stabilizing East Side neighborhoods, transit planning, arts inititiatives, more early childhood programs if it didn't have every single metro attraction and infrastructure on its plate. That's all I'm saying, but I can see you don't agree.

Hey Black Knight,

Do I need to spell it out? Your original argument was that moving MCI to KS would shift the tax burden to Kansas. We proved that their was no tax burden on the city from MCI. So now, insted of admitting that you were wrong, or at least shouting up about it, you are trying to change the argument about who manages the airport. Yes, KCMO manages the airport, under strict guidance from the federal government. But that has nothing to do the the big "tax burden" you are trying to shift to KS.

You were wrong, admit it or drop it.

I do think the rest of your last post is valid.

[Slappy the Wang]

Why do I get the feeling that several of the sore losers have gotten over their previous voting quams and routinely use Enterprise Rentals?  The same folks who are seemingly pissed today will be talking about how wonderful the improvements are in 08.

[mean]

So what? Nothing wrong with appreciating the fruits of a bad deal. Doesn't make the deal good.