Develop the area around the TSC?

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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Maitre D
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by Maitre D » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:43 pm

Michael® wrote:Isn't Dallas/Ft Worth the 5th largest metro in the country?
KC can't pull this off, there's no way the metro could support anything there.
And why should they? What's the difference or special attraction to the Applebees at TSC rather than just drive home to your neighborhood in Lees Summit and stop at Chile's there?

Downtown would have been a distinct and unique draw before and after games.

The whole idea of retail & entertainment around a ballpark is only realized from critical mass.
You can't "build" critical mass out of nothing.
TSC is a disparate lagoon surrounded by ugly, sprawled industrial and old, nearly rural-looking, low-income suburbs.

Face it, the area around TSC is a joke.
Just accept what the Jackson Cty leadership gave you and be done with it.
A billion dollar rehab... Lol. We'll have exactly what we had in 1970.



Damn, that was a good post.  Can't say I check the site out very much anymore, but this was very good.

Lots of people in KC agree with you Michael.  It really sucks.  It's really magnified when you go to another city.  Imagine STL if the Jones Dome was in Clayton and the ballpark in Creve Couer. 

One disagreement: it's not all on KC's poliical leadership - others are responsible.  Blame the white trash, Arkansas hillbilly owner who refused to spend a dime of his own money.  He's more culpable than anyone in GOVT.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:27 pm

Come on PPA....do all of your post have lead into making fun of one of our owners?  Bring something fresh to the table.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by Maitre D » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:49 pm

I dunno - I think exonerating the politicos (to a large degree) is a bit "fresh", don't you?
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by 49r » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:31 am

pittsburghparoyal wrote:
Damn, that was a good post.  Can't say I check the site out very much anymore, but this was very good.

Lots of people in KC agree with you Michael.  It really sucks.  It's really magnified when you go to another city.  Imagine STL if the Jones Dome was in Clayton and the ballpark in Creve Couer. 

One disagreement: it's not all on KC's poliical leadership - others are responsible.  Blame the white trash, Arkansas hillbilly owner who refused to spend a dime of his own money.  He's more culpable than anyone in GOVT.


Heh

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by Highlander » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:33 pm

pittsburghparoyal wrote:
One disagreement: it's not all on KC's poliical leadership - others are responsible.  Blame the white trash, Arkansas hillbilly owner who refused to spend a dime of his own money.  He's more culpable than anyone in GOVT.


I really do not think Glass is to blame for this.  The Royals had one of baseballs better and more generous owners prior to Glass in Kaufman and during his tenure, the area around the stadium went equally undeveloped.  I agree 100% with Michael's post; the area may have been ripe for development in the early 70's but that period is long past.  The immediate area has fallen into decay, the more affluent suburbs are too far east and undergoing their own development while downtown is coming back to compete on the other end.  The entire metro area is overbuilt with respect to entertainment complexes and is not going to be able to support another (see the recent Star article on KC's overbuilt restaurant scene).  The  traffic from Royals and Chiefs games would probably turn most patrons off and it would be difficult to build  critical mass from nothing as Michael stated (Village West did it but they were in a somewhat different situation).  This problem results from 1) bad location and 2) opportunity long missed and not so much from having a cheap owner. 

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by KCMax » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:23 pm

Danny Clinkscale on 810 was talking about development near Kauffman and said in the 80s there used to be a few failed bars near there where the Taco Bell now is. Does anyone remember that? Anyone ever been to them?
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by kcdcchef » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:59 pm

KCMax wrote:Danny Clinkscale on 810 was talking about development near Kauffman and said in the 80s there used to be a few failed bars near there where the Taco Bell now is. Does anyone remember that? Anyone ever been to them?


there was a place that was to the right of the taco bell, kind of back in there, called s.a. sanders pan fried chicken, and that shit was like strouds, some good stuff, fat juicy, good biscuits, excellent drink specials, always packed on game days, made it a few years, really did well if there was a game. but, could not underwrite the losses on days when there is no game. not sure how businesses that are mainly reliant on the stadiums do it without them, ie, here in pittsburgh, there are two restaurants that are built into the stadium, outback and atria, and both are dead all winter long, jacks and i go in there for dinner sometimes in like december, and that place is like a mortuary, so, not sure how they pull it off.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by trailerkid » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:52 pm

kcdcchef wrote:there was a place that was to the right of the taco bell, kind of back in there, called s.a. sanders pan fried chicken, and that shit was like strouds, some good stuff, fat juicy, good biscuits, excellent drink specials, always packed on game days, made it a few years, really did well if there was a game. but, could not underwrite the losses on days when there is no game. not sure how businesses that are mainly reliant on the stadiums do it without them, ie, here in pittsburgh, there are two restaurants that are built into the stadium, outback and atria, and both are dead all winter long, jacks and i go in there for dinner sometimes in like december, and that place is like a mortuary, so, not sure how they pull it off.


Yup...hard to make a buck next to I-70 when there's no game.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by kcdcchef » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:39 pm

trailerkid wrote:Yup...hard to make a buck next to I-70 when there's no game.


as usual you pick out only part of the post to reply to, but, explain this, i notice other restaurants, in other cities, that are near stadiums, DEAD AS SHIT when there is no game, how do they make it? i mean, seriously, i am in the restaurant business and i do not get it.

point it, if in other cities they can survive off 80-90 dates a year, why can they not in kc?
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by knucklehead » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:37 am

If they use the parking lot between the two stadiums, it would be more like 100 dates a year.

10 chiefs, 2-4 college football, 80 royals and 4-6 concerts and other events. You could also create a few dates by creating new events like festivals. 

The key is being able to serve both stadiums. I question the Royals plan to put resturants behind the outfield because they could not serve arrowhead events.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by lock+load » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:38 am

kcdcchef wrote:point it, if in other cities they can survive off 80-90 dates a year, why can they not in kc?


Maybe because even when there is a game, the Royals draw one of the smallest crowds in baseball.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by kcdcchef » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:15 pm

lock&load wrote:Maybe because even when there is a game, the Royals draw one of the smallest crowds in baseball.


not buying it lock. pittsbugh is right there with the royals in terms of attendance sucking ass. and they have restaurants that survive.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by lock+load » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:19 pm

kcdcchef wrote:not buying it lock. pittsbugh is right there with the royals in terms of attendance sucking ass. and they have restaurants that survive.


I would attribute that to the location of the stadium.  Taco Bell and Denny's do survive outside the K, though :)

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by AF » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:19 pm

Here is my idea for development at the TSC: A plaza/zona rosa/town center sort of development across the street with a pedestrian bridge going over blue ridge cutoff.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by Maitre D » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:25 pm

People don't want to live or shop in that dumpy area.   the other 3 developments you cited, are in nicer areas. 

And where would people send their kids to school?   Are there any good private schools out in that area?  I doubt it.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by chrizow » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:47 pm

Maitre D wrote:People don't want to live or shop in that dumpy area.   the other 3 developments you cited, are in nicer areas. 

And where would people send their kids to school?   Are there any good private schools out in that area?  I doubt it.


the raytown schools are fine, and archbishop o'hara is a catholic high school in the area....

...but yeah, i dont see a ZR/TCP sort of thing happening out there.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by Highlander » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm

I can understand the sentiment to develop the Stadium area but, please, no more gargantuan VW-scale suburban developments in the metro.  I just do not think the city has the commerce to facilitate any more of these things and any thing else that goes in is going to directly compete with the P&L District for the ever-diluted consumer dollar.  The time to do this would have been 1975 but I can really see no point now.  We've invested a ton of money in the core and it makes no sense to try to deter what few surburbanites will be headed that direction by more massive entertainment districts in the burbs. 

 
Last edited by Highlander on Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by KC0KEK » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:07 pm

Why would anyone want to live a stone's throw from a six-lane highway that probably would be eight lanes by the time anything is built? The road noise alone would kill a lot of sales.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by Maitre D » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:05 pm

KC0KEK wrote:Why would anyone want to live a stone's throw from a six-lane highway that probably would be eight lanes by the time anything is built? The road noise alone would kill a lot of sales.


KC, the Mission Farms Condo thread is in the "Kansas Suburbs" folder I think....
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Post by KCPowercat » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:34 pm

If anything of substance can be built in KCK, it's possible anywhere.
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