Develop the area around the TSC?

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rxlexi
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby rxlexi » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:34 pm

  in my little dream world, I don't necessarily feel that all hope is lost for this area.  If I did, I would have to face the fact that I have 25 plus years of uber depressing post game environment in my many Royals and occasional Chiefs game experiences.  I think we just need to scale back the size of any potential plans...we certainly don't need (and couldn't support, IMO) another Village West.  But come on, I think if you give folks a small development that is attractive, modern and semi-pedestrian oriented, containing 3-6 bars/restaraunts, and with maybe a local sports theme, they would support it.  I would, at least.  Give me something to enjoy in the area, post-game, so that the whole place feels like a little bit more a destination, rather than a beautiful stadium surrounded by acres of paring and depressed neighborhoods.  We could make something work, IMO...
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby knucklehead » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:25 am

I attended a thursday day game at the K two weeks ago and spent some time walking around the stadium to check out redevelopment ideas.

First, the stadium is in excellent shape. Concessions and concourses need moderization, but really the core of the stadium is still outstanding.

The rennovations will jazz up both stadiums quite a bit. They should develop the area between the two stadiums with a 365 day a year hall of fames for both royals and chiefs, resturants and bars and team stores. They should also push stadium tours on off days.

A hotel between the two stadiums could also work.

On non game days - parking would be free. On game days, patrons would have to pay the regular parking fee. The hotel could reimburse parking fees if that becomes a problem.

As far a the neighborhood - it is far from dangerous. My brother lives by 291 and 40 highway so I am in the area from time to time. We drive into the stadium on the back roads (the one that goes right behind the old Blue Ridge Mall). Certainly looks like a normal neighborhood to me.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:37 am

I can't imagine many people are going to drive out to Indepenence, so they can tour the "Halls of Fame" for two sub-par sports franchises.


If they were DT or by VW....oh nevermind...
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby GuyInLenexa » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:00 pm

I could see a small convention hotel/mixed use development for small meetings and conventions.  I think that the two stadiums could serve as an interesting backdrop for such a venue.
A two hundred room, maybe ten stories or so would be nice.  People could stay from out of, or in town and walk to the stadiums.
Just a thought.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby chrizow » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:06 pm

if someone wants to build hotels and stuff out near the stadium, then great, but the county and/or city should not give one cent to such people.  the city needs to use economic incentives to continue revitalizing the urban core, not throw even more good money after bad out at the TSC.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:10 pm

chrizow wrote:if someone wants to build hotels and stuff out near the stadium, then great, but the county and/or city should not give one cent to such people.  the city needs to use economic incentives to continue revitalizing the urban core, not throw even more good money after bad out at the TSC.



AMEN TO THAT!!!!

The owners decided they wanted the public to fund those stadiums out in the boonies.  The county agreed.  Therefore, leaving that area pathetic and barren was not the county's choice whatsoever.  Blame the owners. 

And if they want that area developed, they've got all the money on the planet to do it.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby GRID » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:12 pm

I don't think the owners give a shit one way or the other about what happens "outside" the stadiums.  That's the biggest reason why we didn't even look at the idea of building a downtown baseball stadium.  If the owner isn't interested, may as well go the cheap route and stay at the TSC.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:13 pm

GRID wrote:I don't think the owners give a shit one way or the other about what happens "outside" the stadiums.


Judging by their team's performances, it appears they don't give  ashit about what happens INSIDE the stadiums either!


:lol: :lol:
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby GRID » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:20 pm

Maitre D wrote:Judging by their team's performances, it appears they don't give  ashit about what happens INSIDE the stadiums either!


:lol: :lol:


true, but that makes the idea of the owners caring about what goes on outside the stadiums even more ridiculous.

If we had a "local" ownership group and person like StL does, they probably would have paid the extra money or taken the extra time to get a ballpark downtown or even properly develop the TSC.  But we don't have that and we certainly don't have the leadership to force it, especially in Jackson County.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby KC0KEK » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:28 pm

Glass is semi-local now, although I don't how much time he spends in his new crib on the Plaza versus Arkansas.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:59 pm

GRID wrote:true, but that makes the idea of the owners caring about what goes on outside the stadiums even more ridiculous.

If we had a "local" ownership group and person like StL does, they probably would have paid the extra money or taken the extra time to get a ballpark downtown or even properly develop the TSC.  But we don't have that and we certainly don't have the leadership to force it, especially in Jackson County.


That is exactly right.


I want to address your point about doing this think 'On the cheap' - b/c no doubt, the TSC options were cheaper than building new.  (When I say cheaper, I refer only to the owners' original refusal to contribute the typical 30% or so to build new).

It IS VERY cheap to pay 225M to have MLB in your city for 25 years. (Humor me and assume the lease is airtight, which we all know isn't).  9M/yr for MLB?  That's a steal!  And since the teams are so bad, the cost of attending is so low.

My dad is thrilled the Royals lose so much:  "MD, where can you get tix behind the dugout for $24 and get in/out in 10 min?"  So, the cost of keeping AND attending the games, is very low compared to most cities.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby ntbpo » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:11 am

Just to throw this out there, is the parking lot at the tsc owned by the county or the teams? I know here in dt St.Louis there are 7-10 garages competing for our parking $. Is it could be a main reason current ownership doesn't want to move from the tsc because of the incredible amount of revenue that can be generated because of parking? The current ownership does in fact have a monopoly..

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby GRID » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:13 am

ntbpo wrote:Just to throw this out there, is the parking lot at the tsc owned by the county or the teams? I know here in dt St.Louis there are 7-10 garages competing for our parking $. Is it a good or atleast a main reason that current ownership doesn't want to move from the tsc because of the incredible amount of revenue that can be generated because of parking? The current ownership does in fact have a monopoly..


County owns it, teams set prices and get the revenue.  Nice huh?

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby mean » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:18 am

So Glass didn't want to move downtown...hmmmmm
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby ntbpo » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:22 am

Thats a large amount of revenue that the teams get to keep. I know I went to a Chiefs game years ago and it was $20 to park-don't know how much it is now. Would like to think the city gets some amount of $ from the parking dollars.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby GRID » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:22 am

mean wrote:So Glass didn't want to move downtown...hmmmmm


parking is one reason.  It's a big revenue generator for the teams and it would have gone away.

Funny thing is most fans feel the same way.  They think the TSC parking is just awesome.  But you have no choice but to pay it.

Few people in KC will do it, but there will be plenty of ways to park for 1-5 bucks or better, free to attend the sprint center.  Plus you can park just about anywhere in RCP and take a bus in.  But most will park a block away and bitch that it cost 20 bucks and takes an hour to exit the garage.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby bbqboy » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:17 am

GRID wrote:I don't think the owners give a shit one way or the other about what happens "outside" the stadiums.  That's the biggest reason why we didn't even look at the idea of building a downtown baseball stadium.  If the owner isn't interested, may as well go the cheap route and stay at the TSC.

except in the A's new home in Fremont:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 01&sc=1000
  At the A's proposed new ballpark in Fremont, home runs wouldn't fly into the bay or the salt flats. But they might land in your plate of spaghetti at some upscale Italian restaurant.

If approved by Fremont's City Council, the $450 million Cisco Field would open in 2011 in a now-vacant lot in the city's Irvington district. It would be surrounded by high-end retail stores, restaurants overlooking the outfield, and housing for at least 3,000 people, A's officials told Fremont on Tuesday night.

"This is the biggest project Fremont will ever see," Mayor Bob Wasserman said. "If it's approved, it will create a pride here. It will make the city a whole place."

Though finances weren't part of the discussion as the A's outlined the latest details of their 200-acre, $1.8 billion development plan to Fremont officials and residents at Fremont City Hall, the team has asserted that a new ballpark would raise millions of dollars a year in public and private revenue.

On Tuesday, the A's said they would comply with city officials' request to move a proposed elementary school closer to the stadium. It had been planned for several blocks away.

Cisco Field - which would be located 25 miles south of the team's current stadium in Oakland- would seat 32,000 and be the smallest ballpark in major-league baseball. Almost the entire outfield would be rimmed with elevated seating. That way, pedestrians, shoppers and diners walking in a mall area below could watch the game for free through windows beneath those elevated seats.

The team, tentatively to be called the Athletics at Fremont - at one time it had been the Silicon Valley Athletics at Fremont - would play in a classic ballpark with plenty of bricks, reminiscent of Boston's Fenway Park or AT&T Park in San Francisco, said Keith Wolff, the A's co-owner.

"On game days, the ballpark will provide energy and excitement," Wolff said. "On nongame days, it will be like a sculpture or a park."

The public would also be able to watch games for free from a public park just beyond center field. That park would even have its own scoreboard.

The development would include 11,000 parking spaces cloaked by four- and five-story residential buildings, with more than 3,000 units in all.

Most of the 60 or so Fremont residents who attended Tuesday's meeting supported the project.

"Fremont, for many years, has needed something to keep people here," said Bill Rinetti, owner of Massimo's restaurant. "People will stay here and spend their money here, and the whole city will prosper."

Not everyone was thrilled with the project. Some complained that the ballpark wouldn't be close enough to BART - it's 5 miles from the nearest station - and that the shopping area would attract too much traffic.

"Everyone here seems to be intoxicated with the idea of bringing a professional ball team to Fremont," said Vinton Bacon of Fremont, who works for the Sierra Club. "This project brings more suburban sprawl and is inherently environmentally unfriendly."

The A's plan to submit a formal development application to Fremont within four weeks, Wolff said. The A's have said they are leaving Oakland because they couldn't secure land for the expanded development the owners envisioned.
cont....

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:23 am

ntbpo wrote:Thats a large amount of revenue that the teams get to keep. I know I went to a Chiefs game years ago and it was $20 to park-don't know how much it is now. Would like to think the city gets some amount of $ from the parking dollars.


I don't think the Royals parking revenue is all that important, really.  Let's do the math:  say we draw 1.6M fans.  Let's say there are 2.5 fans per car, that means 640,000 slots were sold.  The average cost is, say, $7.

640,000 X $7 = $4.48M

That covers the salary of Scott Elarton!  Net:  in a business that generates 120M in revenue, ~5M isn't significant.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby GRID » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:26 am

Maitre D wrote:I don't think the Royals parking revenue is all that important, really.  Let's do the math:  say we draw 1.6M fans.  Let's say there are 2.5 fans per car, that means 640,000 slots were sold.   The average cost is, say, $7.

640,000 X $7 = $4.48M

That covers the salary of Scott Elarton!   Net:  in a business that generates 120M in revenue, ~5M isn't significant.


To the penny pinching royals, 5 million is a lot.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:34 am

GRID wrote:To the penny pinching royals, 5 million is a lot.


You get my point tho - it's 3.7% of their revenue.  And no company would freak out about 3.7% of their business being threatened.  Especially if it could increase sales in other areas, which the Royals ABSOLUTELY would've done with a DT park (premium seating, suites, yada-yada)
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