Develop the area around the TSC?

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
aknowledgeableperson
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:28 pm

Maitre D wrote: Especially if it could increase sales in other areas, which the Royals ABSOLUTELY would've done with a DT park (premium seating, suites, yada-yada)


And with the rehab they get premium seating, suites, and yada-yada also.  So what is your point?
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:13 am

aknowledgeableperson wrote:And with the rehab they get premium seating, suites, and yada-yada also.  So what is your point?


Show me the premium seating and suites that are going into the K.

From what I've seen, it's almost exclusively infrastructure, concourses, eating options, a restaurant/pavilion in the OF, new scoreboard, and a stupid "lair" for the mascot.

Show me all the premium + suites.  I bet it's a fraction of the project.  And that's the point.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby rxlexi » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:29 pm

I thought an increased number of suites was a major part of the K renovation?  The press box, for exammple, is being moved into the upper deck to accommodate additional suites in its former location.  Not sure just how many will be added/renovated, but you'd have to be a pretty dense MLB owner to not add a number of suites/luxury boxes when renovating and modernizing a stadium.  Maybe that's the point, eh MD?
are we spinning free?

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:01 pm

Maitre D wrote:Show me all the premium + suites.  I bet it's a fraction of the project.  And that's the point.


And they would be a fraction of a new stadium as well.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:38 pm

aknowledgeableperson wrote:And they would be a fraction of a new stadium as well.


Suppose for a moment, you are 100% correct about all things related to the DT vs. K argument.

Let me ask: why do OTHER cities build new then?  If it's no more beneficial to build new, and DT (16 of the last 17 are there, as you may know)......are you saying that all other owners & cities are irrational people?

Do we know something, they all don't?
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby mykem » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:26 am

Keep in mind Maitre D, a lot of those cities that built new ballparks needed new ballparks. Example, Philly was playing in the vet. the vet was a multipurpose circular stadium with poor sightlines. The same follows for San Diego, St. Louis, Cleveland, etc. It was absolute that those cities replace their stadia.
Kauffman, on the other hand was designed primarily for Baseball. The sightlines are good, and there is room to expand. The location sucks, but the stadium will be great once the renovations are complete.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:40 am

mykem wrote:Keep in mind Maitre D, a lot of those cities that built new ballparks needed new ballparks. Example, Philly was playing in the vet. the vet was a multipurpose circular stadium with poor sightlines. The same follows for San Diego, St. Louis, Cleveland, etc. It was absolute that those cities replace their stadia.
Kauffman, on the other hand was designed primarily for Baseball. The sightlines are good, and there is room to expand. The location sucks, but the stadium will be great once the renovations are complete.



That doesn't really address why they build DT tho.   If they need new facilities, that's fine.   Why not build out in the Burbs, like we did?

After all, the "K lovers" on this board tell me all the time that DT land is too expensive.  Well - why do other cities have no problem acquiring it?


And many teams that get new facilities, didn't really need them.  Busch Stadium just got a 50M or so facelift 10 years ago, and the park was in fine condition when I was there.  They wanted new, for all the revenue generators that a new ballpark would give them.   
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby chrizow » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:44 am

the K has been there so long that people in KC can't seem to imagine downtown baseball.  then, when they go to a game in chicago, STL, denver, etc. they seem to LOVE the vibrant urban atmosphere of the experience...then they come back to KC and clamor to pump 200M into a stadium in raytown! 

pretty awesome. 

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby mykem » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:44 am

Maitre D wrote:
That doesn't really address why they build DT tho.   If they need new facilities, that's fine.   Why not build out in the Burbs, like we did?

After all, the "K lovers" on this board tell me all the time that DT land is too expensive.  Well - why do other cities have no problem acquiring it?


And many teams that get new facilities, didn't really need them.  Busch Stadium just got a 50M or so facelift 10 years ago, and the park was in fine condition when I was there.  They wanted new, for all the revenue generators that a new ballpark would give them.   
Not everyone who built new ballparks built them in their DT. Example Arlington, another is Denver. Denver is considered to be an Urban ballpark. Petco isn't DT San Diego either it's another example  of an urban ballpark.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby chingon » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:24 pm

the K has been there so long that people in KC can't seem to imagine downtown baseball.  then, when they go to a game in chicago, STL, denver, etc. they seem to LOVE the vibrant urban atmosphere of the experience...then they come back to KC and clamor to pump 200M into a stadium in raytown! 

pretty awesome. 


Good to know I am not the only one that notices that the very people who bitch about how boring KC is compared to other cities are the same ones who vocally oppose everything that makes those cities fun being replicated in KC.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:04 pm

chingon wrote:Good to know I am not the only one that notices that the very people who bitch about how boring KC is compared to other cities are the same ones who vocally oppose everything that makes those cities fun being replicated in KC.


You are not alone, Chingon.  You are not alone.



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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby eliphar17 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:06 am

mykem wrote:Denver is considered to be an Urban ballpark. Petco isn't DT San Diego either it's another example  of an urban ballpark.


Both of those are in downtowns but on the outer edge. But Philly's new park, for example, is a couple of miles south of downtown surrounded by parking lots.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby GRID » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:14 am

There is only a handful of ballparks that actually interact with downtown areas.  Denver is one, San Diego is another, but most are like Philly.  They are in more urban locations than the TSC, but are really no different than the TSC.  99% of the people drive (or take transit) to the game and the drive or take transit home.  Seattle, Cincy, even St Louis are examples of this.

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:18 am

GRID wrote:There is only a handful of ballparks that actually interact with downtown areas.  Denver is one, San Diego is another, but most are like Philly.  They are in more urban locations than the TSC, but are really no different than the TSC.  99% of the people drive (or take transit) to the game and the drive or take transit home.  Seattle, Cincy, even St Louis are examples of this.


What the hell does this post even mean?

Even at Wrigley Field and Yankee Stadium, you'll see a parking lot full of cars across the street.  Some people drive to the game.  So what?  Americans drive cars.

It in no way, means the Ballpark "doesn't interact' with the city.  WTF.  Most ballparks do in fact, draw heavily from urban areas esp. businesspeople who go after work.  And, people who go after the game to bars/restaurants, etc.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby chrizow » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:19 am

^ that's why the new K should have been in the East Loop.  think about the energy that would be created downtown during the summer with a combination of the Sprint Center, the K, the P+L, Crossroads, River Market, etc. 

:shock:

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:21 am

chrizow wrote:^ that's why the new K should have been in the East Loop.  think about the energy that would be created downtown during the summer with a combination of the Sprint Center, the K, the P+L, Crossroads, River Market, etc. 
:shock:


That, or in Washington Park by Union Station.  And please, no more "That wouldn't work!"  Smart people in smart cities find ways to get the right things done.  And ignore the naysayers.
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby chrizow » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:22 am

yup.  i'm pretty sure you could build a stadium in the east loop and only have to tear down like 3 buildings.  :lol:

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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby Maitre D » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:25 am

chrizow wrote:yup.  i'm pretty sure you could build a stadium in the east loop and only have to tear down like 3 buildings.   :lol:


You mean, you wanted a major facility that attracts tourists (not to mention, 1.6 to 2M local fans per year), is near the Core, right off major highway access, that wouldn't destroy any important buildings, that would supplant a known bad area, and would be adjacent to any possible future transit line?

Come on man.  You obviously don't "Think Big"    :?
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby WSPanic » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:29 am

But where would everyone park?
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Re: Develop the area around the TSC?

Postby KCMax » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:59 pm

AF wrote:Here is my idea for development at the TSC: A plaza/zona rosa/town center sort of development across the street with a pedestrian bridge going over blue ridge cutoff.

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This was my thought as well, but I must agree that there really shouldn't be any public money towards such an endeavor (except maybe the bridge). There are other areas of much greater importance. It would be nice to see, but I can't see Glass and Hunt doing that anytime soon unless hell starts getting chilly.
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