Questions Fail - Downtown Baseball?

[KCMax]

I now want to vote for a retractible roof for Arrowhead with modest renovations and nothing for Kauffman. The ASG, Super Bowl and Final Four combined economically justify the cost of the roof and renovations.

The cost of the Kauffman renovations and what they will net KC taxpayers is still a freakin joke.

[aknowledgeableperson]

We have until December 31st, 2007(not 2006), to come up with a plan for funding that will see that the county lives up to its end of the contract. That's plenty of time to come up with a plan that doesn't ruin the county.

Is it 2006 or 2007?  I guess I will have to consider the source.  bababahua says it is 2007.  The Star in this morning's edition says it is 2006, using County officials.  I can usually trust what is said in the paper as opposed to bababahua, so I will go with the 2006 date.

Now, if bababahua can actually prove his point I will reconsider this point of the issue.

[kcdcchef]

Is it 2006 or 2007?  I guess I will have to consider the source.  bababahua says it is 2007.  The Star in this morning's edition says it is 2006, using County officials.  I can usually trust what is said in the paper as opposed to bababahua, so I will go with the 2006 date.

Now, if bababahua can actually prove his point I will reconsider this point of the issue.

lockandload said for SURE it is later this year, and his star piece said so, and he is standing by that.

nice to have you back akp, lets meet up to vote yes at the same polls tuesday. i have to vote early, have a flight to catch.

[LenexatoKCMO]

nice to have you back akp, lets meet up to vote yes at the same polls tuesday. i have to vote early, have a flight to catch.

There was a gentleman in the paper last week receiving a two year sentence of state imprisonment for fraudulent voting in Kansas City.  I wonder if they need any help in the kitchen at the Cameron Correctional Facility?

[TheNorthlander]

There was a county committee that met and figured out that it was about $50 million needed right now (end of the year) and about $30 million later.  HOK helped put those numbers together.  The teams however, never signed on to that amount.  The maintenance is needed, but the teams prefered to put the money into revenue generating features.

[LenexatoKCMO]

double post

[bahua]

Is it 2006 or 2007?

It's 2007. In January 2005, the Chiefs and Royals organizations agreed to postpone the deadline by one year. It was reported in the Star, but that far back requires registration and payment on the Star's website.

From the January 20th, 2005 article, titled "Downtown ballpark on agenda, Group has 100 days to come up with plan" --

"The Royals and Chiefs have agreed to a one-year postponement of Jackson County's obligations to upgrade the Truman Sports Complex. The Jackson County Sports Complex Authority approved that agreement Wednesday."

[kcdcchef]

There was a gentleman in the paper last week receiving a two year sentence of state imprisonment for fraudulent voting in Kansas City.  I wonder if they need any help in the kitchen at the Cameron Correctional Facility?

i am real frightened.

It's 2007. In January 2005, the Chiefs and Royals organizations agreed to postpone the deadline by one year. It was reported in the Star, but that far back requires registration and payment on the Star's website.

From the January 20th, 2005 article, titled "Downtown ballpark on agenda, Group has 100 days to come up with plan" --

"The Royals and Chiefs have agreed to a one-year postponement of Jackson County's obligations to upgrade the Truman Sports Complex. The Jackson County Sports Complex Authority approved that agreement Wednesday."

funny, someone on npr yesterday familiar with this said later this year, and i know i am not the only one here who has heard it was already defaulted. face it, noone knows.

all star game
super bowl
final four

yeah, it has a little momentum now.

[shinatoo]

Even if a DT stadium does not spurn development it will, at the very least, make downtown an important issue to most of the residents in KC. Making regional votes for other public projects (i.e. light rail) more viable. It will help the idenity of of DT as the heart of the city become more intrenched in the mind of the average joe.

[lock+load]

i am real frightened.

Already reported you to the election board, complete with a picture of you and your wife

[kcdcchef]

Already reported you to the election board, complete with a picture of you and your wife

again, i am real frightened.

[Deleted User]

I just read something HILARIOUS from the www.saveourstadiums.com web site...

[quote]There comes a time in the life of any structure, whether a home or public facility, when maintenance and repairs are no longer effective. And that is the situation with our 34 year old stadiums right now. Mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems are failing. Sewage spills over concession stands during games. Scoreboards fail, restrooms are inadequate (especially for women), and concourses are too small. Total replacement of these systems and infrastructure is needed.

The current leases with the teams that were signed in 1990 requires the County to maintain, and to improve the stadiums from time-to-time, keeping them “state-of-the-art,â€

[shinatoo]

These improvements would cost the County millions of dollars that it does not have

Thats why we are asking the county to spend ten times that amount.

[Highlander]

Kansas City can have a vibrant DT without a stadium.  Afterall, the current plans for DT have taken place without a stadium so it should survive without it.  Or are you actually saying DT will not survive without it?

I agree with the statement that KC can indeed have a vibrant downtown without downtown baseball.  I would go a step further and say it can have a BETTER downtown with downtown baseball. 

I guess you are never going to accept the logic that centralized entertainment assets are mutually supportive and and thier proximity multiplies the individual impact of each asset whereas widely scattered assets cannot build on an economy of scale and generally never live up to thier potential to create vitality.  Their scattered nature actually detracts from the value of each individual asset.  The TSC should be studied by urban planners all over the globe as a massive failure in purpose, a profound "what not to do".  They are absolutely great stadiums, nobody ever has argued they are not, but they contribute nothing, absolutely nothing, to the overall cityscape. 

A downtown stadium would bring 20,000 people downtown on how many days per year from April to October?  That is a tremendous shot in the arm for downtown, even if only one fifth stay to take a look around.  Currently, the only activity that the TSC creates is the tailgating before football games.  There is practically no benefit to the surrounding community because we have purposefully created the ultimate commuter sports venue.  Downtown will do OK without a stadium but why should we not take advantage of what DT baseball can bring downtown.  Anything less is just not being cognizant of the magnitude of the opportunity.

It's now 2006 and the city is still suffering from the Urbanicide that was imposed upon it in the 1960-1970's.  A Kemper Arena that was left on its own in a hopelessly cut-off area to die on the vine, a stadium complex that while beautiful , has done nothing to enhance its surroundings or the image of the city, a Bartle Hall that acts as a forbidding fortress wall to one of the few public spaces with any potential in the CBD and a downtown completely isolated by the rest of the city by massive but poorly concieved highway projects.  It's 2006, and it seems we want to do the whole thing over again.

While I am grudgingly for the stadium enhancements because I want to keep professional sports in KC (and believe a DT stadium is a moot point if they leave), I can see the point of the no-voters, they are generally younger than me and have not given up on the idea that a DT stadium can still happen.  That's why I am not going to argue the yes vote all that hard.  I would hate to see KC without baseball or football, I grew up watching the Royals in the 70's and 80's when they were the class act of baseball and look forward to the time when I am at the ballpark (wherever that may be) 20 times per summer again.   

[aknowledgeableperson]

lockandload said for SURE it is later this year, and his star piece said so, and he is standing by that.

nice to have you back akp, lets meet up to vote yes at the same polls tuesday. i have to vote early, have a flight to catch.

Being an election judge Tuesday so we will miss each other.  Hope to see you at the game Monday but will not be back from Des Moines in time.  Have a good day.

[kcdcchef]

Being an election judge Tuesday so we will miss each other.  Hope to see you at the game Monday but will not be back from Des Moines in time.  Have a good day.

you are voting, yes?

[aknowledgeableperson]

I guess you are never going to accept the logic that centralized entertainment assets are mutually supportive and and thier proximity multiplies the individual impact of each asset whereas widely scattered assets cannot build on an economy of scale and generally never live up to thier potential to create vitality.  Their scattered nature actually detracts from the value of each individual asset.  The TSC should be studied by urban planners all over the globe as a massive failure in purpose, a profound "what not to do".  They are absolutely great stadiums, nobody ever has argued they are not, but they contribute nothing, absolutely nothing, to the overall cityscape.

To have a 4 to 8 block area dead, and absolutely dead, for over 280 days a year cannot help a surrounding area, and probably hurt it more, than having that same developed area vibrant with offices, retail, and housing used up to 365 days a year.  Yes, they may not contribute much to the surrounding area but TSC does have an impact on a larger area.  Instead of eating and drinking DT fans eat in Raytown, Lees' Summit, Blue Springs, even Kansas City.  Money still spent, just spent in different areas.  By saying they are already a massive failure before a study prejudices the outcome of the study. 

A downtown stadium would bring 20,000 people downtown on how many days per year from April to October?  That is a tremendous shot in the arm for downtown, even if only one fifth stay to take a look around.   Currently, the only activity that the TSC creates is the tailgating before football games.  There is practically no benefit to the surrounding community because we have purposefully created the ultimate commuter sports venue.  Downtown will do OK without a stadium but why should we not take advantage of what DT baseball can bring downtown.  Anything less is just not being cognizant of the magnitude of the opportunity.

As stated above, there is an economic impact, just spend out more - nothing wrong with that.  Sorry, I am not downtown centric, I am looking at the whole KC area.  It would cost too much money to put it downtown and the area would be giving up too many benefits to pass on the oportunity it has in front of it now.

[aknowledgeableperson]

We have until December 31st, 2007(not 2006), to come up with a plan for funding that will see that the county lives up to its end of the contract. That's plenty of time to come up with a plan that doesn't ruin the county.

From the paper this morning:
The county’s current predicament.

Albert Riederer, a former Jackson County prosecutor and one of the civic co-chairmen of the stadium renovations campaign, told a Blue Springs Chamber of Commerce forum recently that the county was in default of its leases with the teams right now.

In other words, the county had not fulfilled its obligations to maintain and repair the stadiums, and the teams were no longer contractually obligated to stay in Kansas City. “Technically, legally, they’re free to leave now,â€

[kcdcchef]

[quote="aknowledgeableperson"]
From the paper this morning:
The county’s current predicament.

Albert Riederer, a former Jackson County prosecutor and one of the civic co-chairmen of the stadium renovations campaign, told a Blue Springs Chamber of Commerce forum recently that the county was in default of its leases with the teams right now.

In other words, the county had not fulfilled its obligations to maintain and repair the stadiums, and the teams were no longer contractually obligated to stay in Kansas City. “Technically, legally, they’re free to leave now,â€

[warwickland]

here is a snippit from denvers version of the pitch ( i know, just thought i'd share a denver viewpoint)

"Another development that greatly affected the city was the group of decisions that placed the Broncos stadium, Coors Field and the Pepsi Center all in the Central Platte Valley. "Because of where they're located," he says, "it's been a tremendous argument for building out the light-rail system, because you have to get all the people out from the suburbs into the city for the games." As opposed to, say, Kansas City, where all the stadiums are located in the outer rings of the suburbs, this concentration "helped keep the core of the Denver region vital, where in other cities the core needs all the help it can get."

http://www.westword.com/Issues/2005-01- ... ture2.html


this article echos my viewpoint that the connection between a downtown stadium and a subsequent exposure to a much larger swath of suburbanites, and downtown vitality is not even a question.